Wow. Just . . . WOW. (Sorry, LC)

[Grisgra]

Is it a full moon tonight, or do 7Stud players at Party *never* give a crap that you've paired your door card? Because if they always play that way . . . I missed the memo.

I am not a 7Stud player . . . I'm one of those shorthanded limit HE slugs, though I play some Stud8 when I want some variety. Thought I'd branch out a little into regular Stud, just to keep things fresh. Reread Sklansky's "7Stud for Advanced Players) (well, at least some of it, damn, the man needed an editor on that one), and booted up a couple of Party tables.

Apparently, they'll call you down with their split pair of queens even if you pair your door card and start raising them. Or open UTG with Q75r and take another one off on 4th street after they get reraised by someone showing a King.

Sorry, you guys probably knew all this already. And didn't send me the memo. But . . . damn. Damn damn damn. Damn!

Hey, I said it was going to be low content . . . but what is the expected win rate for someone who knows what they're doing on these tables? Eleventy-billion BB/100 or so? I'm guessing?

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]
what is the expected win rate for someone who knows what they're doing on these tables? Eleventy-billion BB/100 or so? I'm guessing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The full moon must have really helped. But despite what you might think, the party stud games arent nearly as profitable as their hold'em counterparts at any limit. I'm not sure what limit you were playing at but you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.

Mike Emery

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
....you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.


[/ QUOTE ]

That gives me something to shoot for. Thanks Mike.

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
....you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.




That gives me something to shoot for. Thanks Mike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow I think you might already be capable of this, Andy. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[ QUOTE ]
but I can't believe that the 5/10 isn't beatable for at least 3-4BB/100, if not more.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is you just hit a rush and there were a lot of bad players making bad plays at the current time you were on. I can assure you that no player on party currently averages 3-4 BB's/100, or more, in the 5-10 over a reasonable amount of hands. I have played tens of thousands of hands there along with several other posters here. I kept good records and only averaged around 2.3BB/100. If I recall correctly, Vintage Sara also posted similar stats (slightly over 2BB/100) once when discussing her winrate in this game. Since the consensus is that shes one of the best players on party ( she is ) it should show you that 3-4 or more per 100 cant be done over time. More regulars from this game like Roland, Beer, Frappe, Stream, Beta, etc., can chime in here.

Mike Emery

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]

My guess is you just hit a rush and there were a lot of bad players making bad plays at the current time you were on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure that both of these are the case.

[ QUOTE ]
I can assure you that no player on party currently averages 3-4 BB's/100, or more, in the 5-10 over a reasonable amount of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

That actually surprises me quite a bit, but you guys are the ones who have put the hands in, not me. With play as bad as I saw, I have a tough time imagining that one couldn't win 3-4BB/100, but from what you say it's probably just that these were the fishiest of the fishiest and I was simply in the right place at the right time.

Just seems to me that 3rd street hand selection in Stud is more important than preflop hand selection in Hold 'em, and that the players in Stud (that I saw) were often even worse than the Hold 'em fish. That, combined with the calldowns . . . wowie.

Well, here's to hoping the rush continues [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]

That actually surprises me quite a bit, but you guys are the ones who have put the hands in, not me. With play as bad as I saw, I have a tough time imagining that one couldn't win 3-4BB/100, but from what you say it's probably just that these were the fishiest of the fishiest and I was simply in the right place at the right time.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have been skeptical of these claims as well - while I don't purport to be an expert, I do see certain regulars on party that are almost always winning players. Maybe 1 day I'll care enough to keep track of my winrate. I feel the same as you do Grisgra: I don't see why a solid player multi-tabling 5-10 couldn't make a decent 4-5BB/hr.

[Hamlet]

I think people are comparing two different win rates.

BB/100 and BB/hr. With multitabling, I can certainly see people winning 4-5 BB/hr. I don't think many people are going to make more than 3 BB/100 in any form of limit poker given the rake. Either you're playing high enough that your opponents are at least semi-competent, or you're playing low enough that the rake eats up quite a bit.

I haven't played the Party 5-10, but I would guess that the 2.3 BB/100 that he and other top Party 5-10 have shared is close to optimal.

Note-- My numbers don't include rake-back or bonuses. If you include those, at certain limits you can approach 4-5 BB/100.

[ QUOTE ]

Well, off the top of my head, I suspect percy6 is easily clearing 4-5BB/hr - the guy 4 tables, and plays rock solid poker. Whenever I sit down, and he's playing, he almost always has more than the standard buy-in, and he almost always increases his stack while I'm playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is the expected win rate for someone who knows what they're doing on these tables? Eleventy-billion BB/100 or so? I'm guessing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The full moon must have really helped. But despite what you might think, the party stud games arent nearly as profitable as their hold'em counterparts at any limit. I'm not sure what limit you were playing at but you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.

Mike Emery

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense mike but you seem a little bitter in this thread. Speculating about wr it's silly first of all, secondly there is absolutely no way for you to know this. I don't care how many hands you've played it's nowhere near enough to be so definitive.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is the expected win rate for someone who knows what they're doing on these tables? Eleventy-billion BB/100 or so? I'm guessing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The full moon must have really helped. But despite what you might think, the party stud games arent nearly as profitable as their hold'em counterparts at any limit. I'm not sure what limit you were playing at but you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.

Mike Emery

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense mike but you seem a little bitter in this thread. Speculating about wr it's silly first of all, secondly there is absolutely no way for you to know this. I don't care how many hands you've played it's nowhere near enough to be so definitive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bitter? How so? Mike's a cool MFer.

[beset7]

sorry i mixed up beer and mikes posts. put together they sound bitter. ignore me sorry.