Average winning hand

[quadT]

I heard the average winning hand in limit holdem is 2pair...i found this hard to believe. anyone ever see stats on this or omaha?

[PJM1206]

I looked at my stats and I have won 25% of my SD with 2 pr and 25% with one pair so.... I am not sure about what constitutes and avgerage winning hand. It looks as though 2 pair and less win greater than 50% of the time and so one could argue that 2pr is the avg winning hand. This is for limit games I have played in totaling about 80K hands

just a guess, but in omaha, I would bet that it is a straight, because on the flop alone, usually at least one person flops 2 pair, and usually others flop a flush (or flush draw), or a straight(or straight draw), and end up making on the turn or river. I don't see 2 pair hold up a lot unless it's a short handed game, so I would be it is better than that, but in Hold 'em, I am not surprised when 2 pair being "an average winning hand" because depending on what the cards are, a lot of times when one makes two pair using each of their hole cards to make it, they probably think they have the best hand.

[ianlippert]

2 pair includes times when the board is paired. ie you have AK and the board is A2775. So poker tracker doesnt really keep good track of what is the most common hand. Me thinks it is top pair good -> top kicker.

[ZenMusician]

Pardon...but it doesn't matter HOW the hand is made.

Two pair is two pair, so really you are not making sense here.

-ZEN

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard the average winning hand in limit holdem is 2pair...i found this hard to believe. anyone ever see stats on this or omaha?

[/ QUOTE ]

-Are we talking about actual hands going to showdown as played in a normal game, or average winning hand if everyone were to go the river every time?
-What does "average" mean?

[BasketballNYC]

It doesn't matter how the hand is made but I think you will easily remember a hand like AK on a A2774 as a TPTK hand and forget that you had two pair. So it feels like you win a lot of hands with only one pair when in fact they are two pair. That is where pokertracker may feel "misleading"

Certainly not short-handed. Do you mean a limit ring game of 9? In NL, most of the time there is no showdown, and when there is, the winning hands tends to be better than a single pair. Even in higher stakes limit (my database has games in the $30/60 to $150/300 stakes range), much of the time in order to force a showdown someone has better than a pair. Of course the board and also pair, turning any pair into at least two pair. Most of my wins, though, are with a single pair (or a two pair with a paired board) when everyone else folds before a showdown.

[setzf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I heard the average winning hand in limit holdem is 2pair...i found this hard to believe. anyone ever see stats on this or omaha?

[/ QUOTE ]

-Are we talking about actual hands going to showdown as played in a normal game, or average winning hand if everyone were to go the river every time?
-What does "average" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing what is true is that if everybody saw the river all the time, 2pr would win about 1/2 the hands (or maybe just more than any other hand). It doesn't make sense to talk about an "average" winning hand where people fold because then this would be completely dependent on the players in the game.

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter how the hand is made but I think you will easily remember a hand like AK on a A2774 as a TPTK hand and forget that you had two pair. So it feels like you win a lot of hands with only one pair when in fact they are two pair. That is where pokertracker may feel "misleading"

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I was getting at. Holdem is different than most poker games because of the shared flop. What happens when you separate the 'real' 2 pair hands from the 'fake' 2 pair hands. I dont think it really matters that much.