How do you play trips on the flop .... interesting hand

RichSaneSwindler · #1 06-27-2004, 06:22 PM

One of the most frustrating things in the world is losing when you have trisp get beat and its happened to me a lot lately. A lot.

Basically, people are drawing to inside straights and then busting me when they hit (and they have hit a lot lately). So, my judgement is skewed. One school of thought would be that if you are up against a player who is likely to draw to an inside straight, bet big to shut him out. Of course, this seems paranoid because over the long haul as long as you can prevent yourself from calling that big bet when they hit you win. Problem with this is that then you have to fold to every scare card from here to eternity.

Consider this hand. It was just inconceivable to me that I would lose this hand. What would you have done. Advice is most welcome.

-RSS

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (7 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($$264.05)
SB ($$208.85)
BB ($$60.05)
UTG ($$129.25)
Hero ($$250.95)
MP2 ($$139)
CO ($$146.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $7, 3 folds, SB calls $6, 1 fold,

Flop: ($16) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB calls $15.

Turn: ($46) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $25, SB raises to $50, Hero calls $25.

River: ($146) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $60, Hero calls $60.

Final Pot: $266
Main Pot: $266, between SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB ($266).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ts Js (straight, king high).
Hero shows Qh Qs (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: SB wins $266.

tewall · #2 06-27-2004, 06:42 PM

He wasn't drawing at an inside straight but an open-ended straight. I don't see that either one of you made a mistake.

If you're suffering a lot of beats, you could play at lower limits until you feel better, or buy in for less. This comment has nothing to do with your ability to beat the game, but for psychological reasons.

RichSaneSwindler · #3 06-27-2004, 07:21 PM

Tewall,

Thanks for your response. Yes, you are right, he was drawing to an open end straight.

The insight I have is, maybe I should bet 2x the pot on the flop in a situation like this? My logic is as follows

It seems there are certain types of boards where overbetting the pot is warranted. This would be a board where there is a draw, but no possible made hand, usually with a couple of paints on it. My idea is that in this case (1) who is going to call this bet? Probably someone with AK, KK, 88 or maybe AQ (at least from what I have seen). All these might have called my preflop raise and all would feel they had a pretty good hand at this point. They are almost as likely to call 1x pot as 2x pot *and* they are not in general going to improve on the turn. Their odds of drawing out on me are *much* lower than that of a straight draw. (2) a lot of people will call a pot sized bet on a straight or flush draw for implied odds. This hand is a great example. So, by overbetting I gain because I think the hands that I am going to beat almost all of the time wlil call, and I will stamp out the people trying to make their draws.

Just a thought.

-RSS

Sandstone · #4 06-27-2004, 07:50 PM

You got out drawn. It happens.

For what its worth, I'd probably even have lost a lot more money on this hand. I'd have a hard time giving him credit for KK, or TJ when I think KQ, a smaller set, or possibly even AK is more likely... And even against TJ you've got 10 outs left.

tewall · #5 06-27-2004, 10:41 PM

I've wondered for quite awhile if overbetting the pot on the flop wouldn't yield better results in the games characterized by bad calls. It certainly seems intuitively that it should. Obviously any time you get called when you are ahead, the more you bet, the better. So you should be the maximum amount that will get called. You could experiment with different bets until you find where the critical point is that people start calling less.

Keep in mind though that you want them to call if they're behind you. Even though they have odds to call you and will suck out some of the time, you're still making more money by having them call. You want them in, not out.