JJ with overcard on flop

iluzion · #1 08-20-2005, 03:39 PM

New to table, no reads on villain.. should I have folded the turn?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

JoshuaD · #2 08-20-2005, 03:42 PM

You can fold the turn when the club comes in, IMO.

wackjob · #3 08-20-2005, 03:45 PM

Why 3-bet the flop? You are either behind to a better hand or the guy is on a draw. You can't give him incorrect odds to call 1 more on the flop by raising & if you are behind you are just feeding him your money.

wackjob · #4 08-20-2005, 03:47 PM

Mistype - I meant to type why raise his flop lead. I think I'd rather raise a non-club turn here or fold to a club on the turn.

college_boy · #5 08-20-2005, 04:04 PM

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You can fold the turn when the club comes in, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

you fold getting 8.5:1 with a jack high flush draw and a hand that could be best?

wackjob · #6 08-20-2005, 04:17 PM

Good point on the BD flush draw. I think this could be a rare situation where a calldown is in order, though when you haven't improved by the river a fold might not be bad

Guy McSucker · #7 08-20-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Why 3-bet the flop? You are either behind to a better hand or the guy is on a draw. You can't give him incorrect odds to call 1 more on the flop by raising & if you are behind you are just feeding him your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

(I realise you don't mean 3-bet but merely raise)

There are two other players in the pot besides the bettor. One has yet to commit any money on the flop so you can protect your hand against him with a raise, and the other has already called and it seems likely we're ahead of him, so a raise gains value from him. I think the flop raise is fine. If it were heads-up, I'd be on your side here.

As for the rest of the hand, the chance you have plenty of outs versus two pair or a few outs against a flush make the turn call obligatory. When the board doesn't pair of 4-flush on the river I feel like we're behind but without a read a call is in order... and now you have a read and will know whether to call or fold the river next time.

Guy.