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#1
09-20-2005, 04:49 AM
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A3s in big multi-way pot.
Im playing .5/1, because I destroyed my bankroll for living expenses mind you, I was playing 5/10.
4 callers and I'm on the button with A3s. I raise to make the pot big for when I have a draw, bb and everyone calls. Flop is A86 with a 2-flush, I have no flush draw now. Its checked to me. No straights or flushes will fold if I bet, no overcards can hit, I dont want to bet into a check-raise, I check. Turn is offsuit 5. The bb bets, ep calls and its folded to me, I raise to charge flush, straight draws and pocket pairs, and plan to check river, if turn is 3-bet I fold. Rivers pairs 6 and bb bets out, ep folds. Pot is laying me around 13-1 so I call and he shows 99. Anyone would have made different plays? 
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#2
09-20-2005, 05:05 AM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
U could easily be ahead here, I would bet the flop for value.
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#3
09-20-2005, 05:16 AM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone would have made different plays? [/ QUOTE ] You won, didn't you?
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#4
09-20-2005, 07:04 AM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
4 callers and I'm on the button with A3s. I raise to make the pot big for when I have a draw [/ QUOTE ] I'm bad at the math, but if I understand you correctly. You're saying, with four players in, you will make your flush by the river once 1 out of 4 times to making raisng PF correct. I won't be able to respond as I need to leave for work. And yes I am being a little sarcastic here although I really do forget how often we flop even a flush draw and we really can't be feeling very secure with A3 when we hit TP against flor limpers.
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#5
09-20-2005, 07:34 AM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
hands seems way over thought for .5/1 [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] i'm betting that flop for value and charge flush draws and straight draws now instead of waiting.
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#6
09-20-2005, 05:35 PM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 4 callers and I'm on the button with A3s. I raise to make the pot big for when I have a draw [/ QUOTE ] I'm bad at the math, but if I understand you correctly. You're saying, with four players in, you will make your flush by the river once 1 out of 4 times to making raisng PF correct. I won't be able to respond as I need to leave for work. And yes I am being a little sarcastic here although I really do forget how often we flop even a flush draw and we really can't be feeling very secure with A3 when we hit TP against flor limpers. [/ QUOTE ] The theory is you make the pot big so people will chase things like overcards and gutshots when you have a draw or made flush.
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#7
09-20-2005, 05:35 PM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
hands seems way over thought for .5/1 [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] i'm betting that flop for value and charge flush draws and straight draws now instead of waiting. [/ QUOTE ] Charging the flushes draws is an idea perpetuated by Lee Jones, and ridiculed by Ed Miller.
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#8
09-20-2005, 05:40 PM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] hands seems way over thought for .5/1 [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] i'm betting that flop for value and charge flush draws and straight draws now instead of waiting. [/ QUOTE ] Charging the flushes draws is an idea perpetuated by Lee Jones, and ridiculed by Ed Miller. [/ QUOTE ] "Charging the flush draws" is a silly idea on some level, but the silliness is essentially semantic. Most of the situations where Jones talks about "charging the flush draws" as the reason for betting are probably situations where you should bet, but the primary reason is for value . The only times where the idea becomes misleading is situations where betting/raising does not have obvious value (you may well be way behind) and where flush draws cannot be protected against (situations where raising will not fold any good draws but will fold bad draws). There is some particular truth to the idea, though, in that it is true that players who are drawing will put in money on early streets but not on late streets unless they have hit; this is really an extension of the "value" idea, though. FWIW, I think checking this flop is really dumb. Just bet. You are way ahead here very often and you're missing tons of bets. Letting any hand here draw for free is stupid. You can't defend against good draws, sure, but you can encourage hands with backdoor, set, maybe even gutshot outs to fold.
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#9
09-20-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] hands seems way over thought for .5/1 [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] i'm betting that flop for value and charge flush draws and straight draws now instead of waiting. [/ QUOTE ] Charging the flushes draws is an idea perpetuated by Lee Jones, and ridiculed by Ed Miller. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Turn is offsuit 5. The bb bets, ep calls and its folded to me, I raise to charge flush, straight draws and pocket pairs, and plan to check river, if turn is 3-bet I fold. [/ QUOTE ] So were joking around in your orignial post?
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#10
09-20-2005, 06:12 PM
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Re: A3s in big multi-way pot.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 4 callers and I'm on the button with A3s. I raise to make the pot big for when I have a draw [/ QUOTE ] I'm bad at the math, but if I understand you correctly. You're saying, with four players in, you will make your flush by the river once 1 out of 4 times to making raising PF correct. I won't be able to respond as I need to leave for work. And yes I am being a little sarcastic here although I really do forget how often we flop even a flush draw and we really can't be feeling very secure with A3 when we hit TP against flor limpers. [/ QUOTE ] The theory is you make the pot big so people will chase things like overcards and gutshots when you have a draw or made flush. [/ QUOTE ] I know what your "Theory" is. What I am saying is you don't hit a draw often enough to make up for all the bets you put in PF. Again, someone will have to chime in with the correct math, but I will give an example. Let's say with two suited cards PF you are a 12:1 dog to make your flush by the river. That means you need to have 12 SB in the pot by the river to be breakeven. Now by raising PF you need to have 24SB in the pot by the river to be breakeven. Thats alot of bets to hope for. Now, for example, say we have two big suited cards that can win with TPTK in addition to the flush, or even a hand like QJs which gives many more draw possibilities. Then raising would be correct. We also take into account our position and will raising buy us the button, get us a free card for our draw etc. These are good reasons to raise. A/rag suited is a hand I want many opponents and buying in as cheaply as possible or it is a muck IMO.
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