JJ interesting preflop situation

[shejk]

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For exact numbers, here's the scenario. Shorty had $93.34, I only had $200 and you had me covered (my mistake in the OP). There are zero hands that should call $93.34 (I had put in $30 already so it would'v been $63.34 more) and then fold on any flop for $106.66 more into a $280.02 (less rake) pot. Putting in half your stack preflop and then folding for the other half on the flop is terrible.

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Maybe I'm too influenced by playing tournaments here (this is very possible) but I both see flops that I fold jj to and my feeling is that people fold against me in such scenarios every now and then.

You just put up a range for me and then compare that with the flop and figure out what kind of equity you expect. I cannot imagine that this is a never fold on the flop.

I thought that the argument against this line (just calling instead of pushing) would be that you would sometimes get away when the flop came something like AKx, or KQx.

Apparently this is not so (since you claim it to be terrible to fold there) so then there is only good things to be gotten from the extra FE I get by calling preflop instead of pushing, no?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Sounds like youre a very good player and you played it very well. You've made some great posts in this thread. Thanks.

[Ghazban]

Whether you called or pushed was mostly irrelevant. I knew that, if I was going to play the hand, the rest of my money was going in (either preflop or on the flop, it doesn't really matter from my perspective). You could either be a donk who doesn't realize he's pot-committed or a good player who's trying to show weakness with the flat call. Either way, I don't think you get away on any flop so I have to decide right at that point whether or not I wanted to play for my stack. The fact that you just called instead of pushing was not a large factor in that decision; I would've folded to a push as well.

Let me ask you a question: if I overcall SB's all-in and the flop comes T55 (as it did) but WITHOUT the flush draw, are you pushing in as a dog, check/calling as a dog, or check/folding?

[shejk]

I'd probably push. That said, I'm not certain that's the best play. I'd put you on a range like 99-qq (maybe too wide?) and ak with perhaps some odd hands thrown in. On top of that, with a ten high flop, I'm not getting a lot of FE against AK. I don't know though, it might still be worth it to give me the aces as extra outs to take the pot down, the few times an opponent folds ace high on that flop to my push.

If I had ak instead, a better line would be check calling, or what do you think?

[Ghazban]

I don't think it matters, which was my original point. The pot is too big and no flop is going to scare either of us away given that we had enough of a hand to get there in the first place. If I overcalled SB's all-in and the flop came A-high and you pushed, I'd call as a massive dog. It would look stupid at the time, but my decision was already made preflop. If you pushed and I called on an A-high board and you had TT, I'd look like a genius; the point is that, with so much going in preflop, I'm not getting away from anything.

You don't have to answer this, but I'm curious as to what you'd do with AQo or AJs. I was honestly surprised to see a hand as weak as AQs from you and felt it must've been pretty close to the bottom of your range for this play.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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I was honestly surprised to see a hand as weak as AQs from you and felt it must've been pretty close to the bottom of your range for this play.

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That's interesting. I think AQs would be right around the middle of his range for making this play against a known tilter with a short stack. That's why I like a push from you with JJ. Good chance they both have aces, too, which cuts down on their outs against you.

[Ghazban]

So what hand range do you give him?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Any decent ace, any decent pair. Something like {88+,A9s+,ATo+}?

[Ghazban]

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Any decent ace, any decent pair. Something like {88+,A9s+,ATo+}?

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I must be way too tight for 6-max.

[TheWorstPlayer]

The guy's a TILTED SHORT STACK! How much do you need to call him?! His hand range is HUGE!