Was Hitler right when he said.........

[A_C_Slater]

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If you choose no, I hope you will explain yourself. And you DO owe me an explanation, for I am your intellectual superior.

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I don't owe you an explanation for that or any other reason,
real or contrived.

Given that there are many people arguing that Hitler is not
or should not be the most despised, you have no basic
argument. Reference at least one post regarding Stalin
on this forum. There are other obvious examples, I am
sure.

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How dare you!

I will not tolerate this blatant insubordination!

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[mosquito]

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If you choose no, I hope you will explain yourself. And you DO owe me an explanation, for I am your intellectual superior.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't owe you an explanation for that or any other reason,
real or contrived.

Given that there are many people arguing that Hitler is not
or should not be the most despised, you have no basic
argument. Reference at least one post regarding Stalin
on this forum. There are other obvious examples, I am
sure.

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How dare you!

I will not tolerate this blatant insubordination!

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] LOL, you are silly!

Have a nice day. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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Also, anyone that votes YES is admiting that Hitler was indeed not evil. They are merely recognizing the fact that a different imprint was given for us to follow. That being the liberty, equal rights, democratic, imprint.

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Slater, this is ridiculous. The poll only asks what people would think about Hitler-you're assuming that they're all right. Let's say an army dedicated to teaching Ptolemy's view of the universe takes over the world. If they win, the sun is thought to revolve around the earth. If they lose, the earth revolves around the sun.
Agreeing with that last sentence doesn't mean that whether or not the sun revolves around the earth is dependent on who wins a war. In other words, all clicking "yes" on the poll indicates is that people would be misled throughout history.
The main flaw in my analogy is that revolving around the sun is a physical property and it's hard to say that "good" and "evil" are properties that apply regardless of perception. However, if you assume that things are inherently good or evil, it shouldn't matter what people are deluded into thinking in the future.

[A_C_Slater]

I don't think man is inherently good or evil.

We are no more good or evil than the animals.

[PairTheBoard]

You don't need German victory in the war to know it's possible for people to consider Hitler a Hero. And there certainly would have been many more such people given greater success of the Third Reich. With complete success he might very well have maintained Short Term Hero status for a few thousand years. But Long Term is another story. 2000 years ago Slavery was considered perfectly ok. Our views have changed since then. The idea that human beings can be perfectly propagandized forever is very dubious imo. Somewhere down the line a new enlightenment would take place and Aryans would come to realize tremendous grief and remorse over humanity's loss and the crime of the Reich's extermination of all but the Master Race.

Of course if the Reich only enslaved the inferior races, those races would certainly Not consider Hitler a Hero.

PairTheBoard

[The once and future king]

Stalin won his war.

Is he seen as a hero?

No.

Edited to add that those who think he is seen as a Hero in Russia are utterly mistaken. There is very small ageing minority that think this.

[JaysonWeberFCP]

A C Slater knows WWII g00t.

My opinion.. Same as AC's really. What would people think of him? Alexander is thought of as a great figure for conquering the entire known world... albeit he knew how to treat the people he ruled over.

But wouldn't there be some claim to Hitler has he succeeded in his plan?

[RxForMoreCowbell]

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Had Hitler won the war would he have been seen as the greatest hero of all time? Keep in mind, that this assumes the next generations were given the proper "education" or indoctrination into the "The Fuhrer is good, the fuhrer is great, mantra." Which they almost certainly would have been.



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I voted no for a different reason than I’ve seen so far, so here goes. Though I do think Hitler would clearly be viewed more positively for his actions in WWII had he won, there is one aspect in his "heroism" that would eventually be debunked. Had Hitler won and truly had his way, he would have completed the Holocaust and perhaps further genocides to reduce the gene pool to those he consider genetically best. I contend that eventually people would recognize that this was a flawed premise. Two facts about the Nazi’s lead me to this analysis. First, that Hitler and the Third Reich believed in, and therefore would teach Darwin's Theory of Evolution. This is important as they were not rejecting science, they merely held belief in some flawed hypotheses. Second, that Hitler and the Third Reich would have written in the history books that the Holocaust happened and that it was successful. Remember, they wouldn't be like today's Holocaust apologists who claim the Nazi's weren't so mean to the Jews, they believed the Holocaust was correct and would have wanted credit for it. As a result of the first point, I believe that we have no reason to doubt that the Scientific Method as we know it would still be taught one hundred to two hundred years after the war.

Given the teaching of science, some years long after Hitler’s death, some scientist would eventually question whether such genocide was an Evolutionary advantage. If Geneticists tested such a premise, with the same knowledge that we have today, they undoubtedly would come to the conclusion that limiting the gene pool to certain hair and eye colors is in fact genetically harmful. Thus science would eventually lead to people understanding that the Holocaust was a flawed idea, which would tarnish Hitler’s image. Furthermore, if much time had passed since WWII, the knowledge that genocide is not advantageous may also lead to questioning if such genocide is ethical which would certainly lead to some historians deciding Hitler was unethical. In this sense Hitler would at least be seen as a flawed figure even if he had complete success in WWII and taken over the US some years later.

[oreogod]

What you forget is that the masses did not know anything of the genocide during the war. And had it been carried out completely or the war never came to an end, I doubt anything would be known of the concentration camps.

[oreogod]

PPl that thought of hitler as a hero had no idea what was going on. In interviews ppl that regarded him highly have stated, had someone told them of the concentration camps during the war...the interviewee would have spit in their face. Until they saw pictures w/ their own eyes, they thought it was just fantasy.

Imagine if he never lost. Besides those who worked the camps it would not be known. Parts of history would be erased when Germany would have won.

The only problem if Germany won the war, is after they won...they might have to create wars to sustain their hold over the world. Or continue a fight against "terrorists." Their social structure was too cannibalistic to be stagnant. I think there would always have to be some forward motion for it to effectivly keep power.

Also to AC, I enjoy your theory of how they would strike america. I always wondered how it would happen if Hitler had actually had more common sense for war conditions (example, russia...winter clothing, russian winters...etc).