Flopping the 3rd nut flush... - Page 3

stu-unger · #21 10-22-2005, 03:45 PM

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Alternatively, villian may have flopped trips and the push is to force flush chasers to lay down their hand but this would be a horrible move on villian's part.

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Is that really horrible? Can you explain what you would do with your set here? Are you laying it down on the assumption that one of your three opponents flopped the flush? Or is it that plus the possibility that they'll stick around with their K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

Thanks,
J Chap

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Even though the question was for him, I'll answer with what I'd do.

First, I don't think pushing here is horrible with the set. However, I would just call from the button with a set. My plan would be to see the turn before I make my move. If the 4th club comes on the turn, I'm not losing all my money here. Obviously, I'd want to board to pair. But if the turn doesn't pair the board or bring the 4th club, now I'm probably losing all my money unless the action from the hero and UTG make it blatantly obvious someone has the flush.

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i get my money in with a set on monotone boards without a read that tells me otherwise...

scrapperdog · #22 10-22-2005, 03:52 PM

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Call, and expect to see a baby flush, 2-pair, or a set. Most fish flat call the raise with the NF or K-Flush. Button is trying to protect his hand IMO.

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Well I was the villian in this hand and wanted to see if anybody folds his hand. I guess not.

The above quote is exactly why I pushed. Reverse psycho I guess, but I don't consider myself a fish [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. I had Q7s

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I said if you have the nut flush you dont push in this situation. You did not have the nut flush.

#23 10-22-2005, 03:52 PM

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i get my money in with a set on monotone boards without a read that tells me otherwise...

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Granted this situation has only come up maybe 3 times in the 60k NL cash games that I have. I've lost each time.

#24 10-22-2005, 04:28 PM

I just found it interesting now because I played a tournament this weekend, and a monotone board hit the flop, and I made a set. I bet, he raised, and I pushed because I didn't think he had it. He folded, and I was happy to take it down right there.

So I can definitely see someone pushing with a set, or even top 2 pair. Its more unlikely, to me, that someone pushes with the nut flush, or the 2nd flush. In this case someone did, and because of this logic, he got a caller. Reverse psychology works as well ;o

TheWorstPlayer · #25 10-22-2005, 04:51 PM

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easy call for me

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3rdEye · #26 10-23-2005, 03:47 PM

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Ive seen all sorts of people limp in with KTs and even K9s. I think you're beat. Even if you arent beat, if he has the K or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you still might lose. I'd fold.

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Even if you knew he flopped a set, would you fold? Because you'll lose more often to a set than someone drawing to the bare Kc or Qc.

#27 10-23-2005, 03:57 PM

I am not even sure what all the discussion is about? Do you really fold this because you are scared of either a K or Q high flush? I am calling. If he has a better flush, reload. I am not folding here and don't understand for the life of me why anyone would. Are we really scared of a K or Q high flush? You can't play winning poker if you play every hand like someone else has the nuts. Very easy call IMO, and all the more so because Hero is not really that deep.

scrapperdog · #28 10-23-2005, 05:30 PM

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I am not even sure what all the discussion is about? Do you really fold this because you are scared of either a K or Q high flush? I am calling. If he has a better flush, reload. I am not folding here and don't understand for the life of me why anyone would. Are we really scared of a K or Q high flush? You can't play winning poker if you play every hand like someone else has the nuts. Very easy call IMO, and all the more so because Hero is not really that deep.

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Call because the villian did not play the hand like someone with a nut flush would play it. Change the action a little bit and you have a tough decision. Calling all-in bets because you are not "scared" is not a good reason. This pot was unraised and I dont see a reason to go broke with the 3rd flush in it unless you have a reason to believe that the villan does not have the nut flush, which you do in this this case. Against certain types of tight players who do not take a lot of chances and who played it like the nut flush this would be a bad call.

#29 10-24-2005, 05:49 PM

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Call because the villian did not play the hand like someone with a nut flush would play it. Change the action a little bit and you have a tough decision. Calling all-in bets because you are not "scared" is not a good reason. This pot was unraised and I dont see a reason to go broke with the 3rd flush in it unless you have a reason to believe that the villan does not have the nut flush, which you do in this this case. Against certain types of tight players who do not take a lot of chances and who played it like the nut flush this would be a bad call.

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Yes if the action were different, I don't think I would give the same advice. I do not think anyone should be worried about having the 2nd or 3rd best hand because of the way the hand played out.

The "not being scared" advice here is referring to this particular hand. I don't think I either stated or implied that always calling with a Jack high flush here to be correct, but in this particular instance it is.