Completing / defending your blinds - all the time?

Toyboy · #1 11-03-2005, 06:30 AM

This is a part of my game I've been questioning lately. Not because I think it's very wrong personally, but more because others seem to think so..

Typical situations:
1) I'm in SB with 83o. 1 limper to me. I complete (unless known aggro BB).
2) I'm in BB with 83o. Min bet by UTG/UTG+1, 1 limper. I call.

My reasoning is that
1) the price (1:5 or so) is about right considering assumed pot equity
2) gives me a loose table image when i show down 83o for the flopped trip 3s.

This is my default blind play. Standard? +EV?
I believe this play inflates my VPIP stats a lot (they are around 35 [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] )

yvesaint · #2 11-03-2005, 06:46 AM

fold both

basically youre only continuing if you flop 2-pair or better

siccjay · #3 11-03-2005, 07:05 AM

Easy fold on both, mainly because of the other caller.

I would only defend my BB with 83o in special occasions and NEVER from the SB,

Toyboy · #4 11-03-2005, 07:13 AM

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fold both

basically youre only continuing if you flop 2-pair or better

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah (or if my 8 pairs in 1st example when I've completed in SB). So I'm not expecting this to be a huge +EV move on it's own. Thinking about it the odds of hitting 2 pair or trips on the flop is somewhere around 1:40 (?), so I agree this might be a serious leak (as I won't be paid much when I hit).

Guess I'm paying too much to keep my LAG image here (which is possibly one of my leaks in general).

Would still like to hear if all LAGs agree though.

JeanieJ · #5 11-03-2005, 08:14 AM

This is going to be a negative EV situation no matter how you look at it. These hands hold no positive value and if you take a look at PT stats (if you have them), you'll see how much calling always on your blinds is costing you. I'm guessing it's a bundle.

You're looking for two pair or better w/ these crap hands and this isn't even including the amount of times your two pair is going to be beat, or get beat on a later street.

Start folding these crap hands. Defending your blinds is okay, but it shouldn't be done every single time. Your table image is important but it's not going to pay off enough for this to be worth it.

Skuzzy · #6 11-03-2005, 08:27 AM

6 max or full ring defence? My only change in 6 max from full ring is to increase the frequency I defend by about 30%. The hands I do it with are never below J7o (I like having half a chance against a random hand) but I often fold rather than defend because the cost is high. I have no idea what 'optimal' is here.

What about stealing all (or nearly all) the time?

Ghazban · #7 11-03-2005, 10:24 AM

Personally, I play fairly tightly from the SB even in unraised pots. Even if I flop two pair with my trash, there's no guarantee I get action and much of the time I'll flop something that's best but has to fold because I can't take any heat.

By contrast, I call (or reraise) a minraise from the BB with any two cards. The difference here is that the minraiser has given me some information about his hand. With that information plus fantastic pot odds, I believe I can turn a profit with any two (I know others on the board disagree and that's fine; this is just my opinion about my play in these situations in my game). There is also more of a pot to fight over so outplaying the opponent results in a larger gain.

PinkSteel · #8 11-03-2005, 10:41 AM

My PT stats have told me that completing the SB too much can be a huge leak. It's a miserable position for playing a hand. Last couple of months in "loosen-up" mode I completed much more and it has not served me well at all. I think it's a big leak for beginners.

I only call minraises from BB if I have two cards that can work together somehow.

teamdonkey · #9 11-03-2005, 02:02 PM

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if I have two cards that can work together somehow.

[/ QUOTE ]

same here. lowest i'll complete from the SB or call a minraise from the BB with are Kx suited, suited 2 gappers, or unsuited connectors. Out of position with a weak hand i really want some flush/straight possibilities to play.

[ QUOTE ]
By contrast, I call (or reraise) a minraise from the BB with any two cards. The difference here is that the minraiser has given me some information about his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

what hand range do you typically put preflop minraisers on?

Ghazban · #10 11-03-2005, 02:10 PM

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what hand range do you typically put preflop minraisers on?

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It depends on what else I've seen them do. Sometimes its AA trying to avoid losing any customers (bust them with your J4o and they'll generously donate a few more buyins from the tilt you induce); sometimes its a small pair or a suited connector trying to build the pot.

Again, the key here is that in an unraised pot from the SB, you have no information but a minraised pot gives you information at a cheap price from the BB. At lower limits on UB, I knew a few players that always minraised AA and potraised anything else they were raising. Against them, I'd call with any two from any reasonable position knowing I could stack them if I flopped two pair.