Spewing? Do you ever fire the third bullet here?

[Alexthegreat]

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I fold this flop.

[b]Flop: Ad 7c 9d


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Are you serious???

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I fold this flop.

[b]Flop: Ad 7c 9d


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Are you serious???

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Are you?

[Atropos]

I think you should try to check-raise all-in on the river....

No seriously, he wont fold anymore. Betting full pot and then calling check-raise on the flop + you didnt show real strength on the turn means he will call you, no matter what.

I dont like your flop check-raise OOP either. You are called much too often and playing a blank turn is quite difficult.However I dont get the people advocating fold. You have some backdoor straightdraws too, maybe you even get freecard for river if you check turn after check-calling flop, these people are passive.

I didn't show real strength betting 60 into 80 pot on turn? Whats strength to you here? We are sitting with 200, 60 is pretty intimidating to most in this game.

I don't like the flop raise here either, due to the other people, but just calling here OOP sucks too. I'm not exactly getting odds to call a pot bet, if someone behind me raises it sucks, and my implied odds are bad here as well. I guess I can hope for an overcall, or hope for him to actually pay off my fishing when the board brings the obvious third diamond? I like folding this flop. Pushing the river here was pretty retarded on my part, this I fully acknowledge. AJo though? Good lord.

[TheCat]

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Very rarely is it a good idea to fire 3rd or even 2nd bullet

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Second bullets are my speciality. Folk will often call a flop bet in hope of some improvement. They usually won't continue to finance a medioce hand faced with a near pot sized turn bet.
Just to mix up my play, following a preflop raise, I also use a turn bluff bet as a variation on the continuation bet. Check or call on the flop then bet on the turn, works a treat when they get tired of the regular flop continuation bet.

[Atropos]

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We are sitting with 200, 60 is pretty intimidating to most in this game.


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Obviously not for those players, who call you with AJ here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I dont know, full pot bet or push surely looks more like a set or top two pair for most players here. Not saying you should have used that play, but I understand that most bad players will not be impressed by your turn bet too much.

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I'm not exactly getting odds to call a pot bet, if someone behind me raises it sucks, and my implied odds are bad here as well. I guess I can hope for an overcall, or hope for him to actually pay off my fishing when the board brings the obvious third diamond? I like folding this flop.

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Im not too sure. If someone raises sure you can fold, but how often do check-raises really happen? It seems these players love slowplaying everything. I like the implied odds, and I think that you can get a freecard to the river even though you are OOP. I call with decent flushdraws very often at the flop, maybe a leak, dont know. Someone should do a detailed analysis about the math, I'm too lazy right now lol.

I think betting out OOP is alot better than check-raising in most situations. All in all in this one maybe its really Betting Out >>> Fold === Check-Call >>> Check-Raise

No, I'm pretty sure a good 90%-95% of the players in this particular game would have folded to the 60 in that spot. I was unlucky enough to pick the wrong guy at the wrong time. I wouldn't normally make the C/R here into this many people, or the second barrel bluff. Pushing 160ish into the 80 pot looks like a set here to him?? Quite frankly, I'm not sure if anything looks like anything to him, as he obviously isn't a thinking player.

The math here is simple though. Getting 2:1 on money, and am 4.2:1 to improve seeing one card. I do have some backdoor draws, but this isn't going to help only seeing one card. If I pick up OESD draw, I will be able to call something like a pot sized bet on turn, but that doesn't erase the mistake I made on flop. To make up for the incorrect immediate odds, you need implied odds, and the implied odds are bad here because the draw is an obvious one that even non-thinking players will be scared of.

There are too many people here in this pot to lead out, as I am unlikely to fold an ace, if I get raised I will be playing a big pot OOP (which is what I mistakingly did here) chasing a 9 outer that I will likely only get to correctly see one card with, and if someone just calls, playing the blank OOP will be awkward as well.

All this being said, I think folding the flop is the best. Don't have odds to just call. Raising the 9 outer here sucks, as you are OOP and theres too many other people in the hand.

[soah]

Folding the flop against this player is obviously terrible since you will win a ton of his money if you hit.