Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

[J_V]

We think differently about the way other people think in this situation. I think she was tickled pink to not be put in tough spots against a tricky aggressive player. I am with Gigabet that she would need a huge hand here to call.

Your line of thinking is more cash game oriented than tourney, IMO. I could be wrong though. I don't know the player in question.

isn't that interesting that a tight player gets as much action than an agressive player? If you feel you can playback at a LAG because he certainly has nothing and you'll put the weak tight to the test because he will lay it down, that makes a case to play tight.

So if you build a weak tight image you can make a huge pot without holding the nuts. Isn't that weird?

[Roman]

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All,

One thing there hasn't been much comment on is her play. I think her flop bet was really key to this hand and was great.

If she bets pot-ish here, Giga may well just be done with the hand.

If she checks behind, the stacks make it awkward for Giga to make a real serious play for this pot without taking an absurd risk. Maybe he takes a turn stab, but I don't see how she ends up stacking him.

I think her line, especially given the image she had, was really great. Perhaps she too was setting the stage for a play.

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great point, one I certainly overlooked.

[shaniac]

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Great post, I love the line and the reasoning. It's hard not to agree with you assessment that she is only calling with those two hands.

If she raises the turn, do you move in over the top? Or is your turn bet designed to get a show of weakness before you push the river (making it more likely you aren't gonna walk into a monster).

I ask because I see this play late in MTT's online by you and a few of your close friends. Turn lead and if not raises, big push knowing that you are not against the nuts.

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I'm confused why you think this a good line. Gigabet played the hand in a way to get minimum information postflop but maximum opportunity to trap himself.

I think giga is in a very ambigious situation when the river card falls and should conisder shutting down, or making another weird-looking continuation bet and fold to a push.

It's also worth considering that JJ Liu mucked KK faceup earlier with the hope of getting someone to try to bluff her off a big pair, like gigabet did, later on. I think she's calling with AK and AA. Edit: I guess Diablo posted the same point at the same time I was. Damn you diablo!

I really don't think this is an important play to be making at this stage in the tournament.

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I don't know who this JJ is, but it is not uncommon in both cash and tourney situations to play in a seemingly weak-tight manner for a while with the goal of getting someone to push you around later.


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From CardPlayer Player of the Year Standings for 2005:

Joanne "J.J." Liu
From: Palo Alto, CA
Rank: 353
Total Points: 762
Total Winnings: $174,710
Total Final Tables: 4

[pergesu]

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Great post, I love the line and the reasoning. It's hard not to agree with you assessment that she is only calling with those two hands.

If she raises the turn, do you move in over the top? Or is your turn bet designed to get a show of weakness before you push the river (making it more likely you aren't gonna walk into a monster).

I ask because I see this play late in MTT's online by you and a few of your close friends. Turn lead and if not raises, big push knowing that you are not against the nuts.

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I'm confused why you think this a good line. Gigabet played the hand in a way to get minimum information postflop but maximum opportunity to trap himself.

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I disagree with this entirely. Gig has all the information he needs to make this play. He's decided that she's going to fold everything but KK/66 here. When you figure that her range can be QQ+/AK, maybe to include JJ, then I think this is good. He had enough information to decide it was a high-probability play and went for it. Unfortunately it turns out she had the only conceivable hand there that he thought she'd call with.

[shaniac]

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Unfortunately it turns out she had the only conceivable hand there that he thought she'd call with.

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Surely you are kidding when you use language like that.

There are only a handful of hands that a player described as she was can have in this spot, and she calls with MOST of them.

Just because she folded KK faceup on a paired board earlier in the tournament, does not mean that she's going to fold TPTK or AA in this spot.

Gigabet didnt play the hand in a way that would convince any backboned player that AK or AA is no good here, so the only hand that she might have re-raised preflop and played in the way she did postflop, is QQ and JJ.

[Roman]

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Unfortunately it turns out she had the only conceivable hand there that he thought she'd call with.

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Surely you are kidding when you use language like that.

There are only a handful of hands that a player described as she was can have in this spot, and she calls with MOST of them.

Just because she folded KK faceup on a paired board earlier in the tournament, does not mean that she's going to fold TPTK or AA in this spot.

Gigabet didnt play the hand in a way that would convince any backboned player that AK or AA is no good here, so the only hand that she might have re-raised preflop and played in the way she did postflop, is QQ and JJ.

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Gigabet said he had talked to her about hands before, and had an accurate read on her. I find it funny that you think your uninformed guess of her calling range is more accurate than gigabets.

[shaniac]

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I find it funny that you think your uninformed guess of her calling range is more accurate than gigabets.

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I find it funny that you think Gigabet's interpretation of her calling range is somehow powerful enough to override common sense. We are dealing with a poker game, not some kind of supernnatural occurence here.

Furthermore, even if the calling range he has assigned her is accurate, he gave himself no chance, the way he played it, to uncover what she might actually be holding.

[Roman]

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I find it funny that you think your uninformed guess of her calling range is more accurate than gigabets.

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I find it funny that you think Gigabet's interpretation of her calling range is somehow powerful enough to override common sense. We are dealing with a poker game, not some kind of supernnatural occurence here.

Furthermore, even if the calling range he has assigned her is accurate, he gave himself no chance, the way he played it, to uncover what she might actually be holding.

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Firstly, she folded KK on a dry board before. Secondly, gigabet has been playing passively against her before and they have mutual respect for eachother. Third, they the two bigstacks on the table.

Tell me what would be your way to uncover what she might be holding? The stacks arent deep enough for this, and gigabet chose a good percentage play that would win him a lot of chips quite often.