What happens when casino catches you counting cards? (Blackjack)

[Moyer]

[doormat]

Moyer,
The answer to this varies greatly depending on a host of factors, including the casino, the shift manager, and you. There are casinos like the Barbary Coast that will kick people out at the slightest suspicion of counting, and other casinos that tend to let you play if your top bet doesn't exceed a couple of hundred dollars and you don't overstay your welcome. Policies change from time to time. Most barrings are not too unfriendly, due perhaps to some lawsuits that have been won by counters based on everything from kidnapping to assault charges filed against the casinos.
So casinos have policies, and in some instances shift managers on some shifts have different policies from managers on other shifts. Sometimes it depends on your notoriety - are you in the Griffin book, have you been barred before from a casino, etc. Casinos can also trespass you for any reason they wish, so it is best to head for the exit at the first sign of serious heat - you can cash your chips later.
There was a casino in Canada that actually charged some counters with cheating, amazing as that seems. The judge dismissed the charges and berated the prosecution for bringing the charges, but only after weeks of legal wrangling, a trial, and large fees to lawyers. So at least they haven't made it illegal to think yet, but it has been tried.
For the most part, barrings simply consist of a casino asking you to leave or telling you that you can play other games but not blackjack. If they ask you to accompany them to the back room, I would politely tell them you are leaving and that you do not wish to do that. They may ignore you and take you against your will - some players I know will then yell, "Help, I am being kidnapped - someone call the police!" This usually upsets the casino but may lay the grounds for a lawsuit, especially if you have witnesses.
It is rare for a casino to assault people these days but it does happen. The trick to being a successful counter lies not so much in being able to count, but in not getting identified as a counter.
So there you have it. Casinos may just shuffle up on you, they may ask you to leave, they may officially bar you, they may trespass you (which gives them the right to arrest you if you return), they may detain you, they may intimidate you, they may backroom you and photograph you, they may in some instances assault you, they may file false charges that you assaulted them. Experience dictates how to deal with the vagaries of it. I would highly recommend making friends and joining a group that has this experience if you are a beginner.

doormat

[Moyer]

Wow. Sounds like a crazy game. Had to ask since it's one of few casino games with a possible positive EV.

This post brings back bad memories of the movie Casino.

It seems like total BS though (the casino's actions, not your post). "Hey, come play this game called blackjack, but I'll only let you play it if you're stupid." What kind of a business is that? How can they even consider counting cards cheating?

[Wildbill]

Say enough times its cheating and you can sometimes get sympathetic ears. Remember that 99% of the public thinks if you gamble you will lose so if they say so and so won money playing in a casino the uneducated person just might agree that you must have been cheating.

The problem these days is the cameras and products they have. Take a casino with a special system to counts the cards itself and then grades your play based on common counting methods and your bet patterns. After they conclude you play a potentially winning game, they use any number of their high-tech cameras to take a near perfect picture of you and if they belong to Griffin in the book you go...and then comes the get out of here speech. Fortunately these systems that count and track all cards are still new and not all that widespread, but its inevitable that they start gaining traction in all but the lowest class joints. Want to see more, just watch Travel Channel, they show that piece about Griffin and their computer program about once a month so you can see how quickly your counting career can be snuffed out.

[Moyer]

That just pisses me off...

And I'm not even good at blackjack.

[SoCalPat]

In New Jersey, card counting is not illegal, IIRC.

They've countered by offering 8 deck shoes, no mid-shoe entry and other generally horrible rules. And I'm pretty sure they can offer similar "Trespassing Acts" that you see in Vegas.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but has any jurisdiction ruled that card counting is illegal? My view has always been that it's impossible to make illegal anything you can do with the power of your own mind.

[Homer]

- I have never heard of card counting being ruled illegal anywhere in the US. That's just something casinos would like you to believe.

- AC has mostly 8-deck shoes, some places allow mid-shoe entry and some don't, when you are "caught" card counting they can't bar you / back you off but they can half-shoe you, rendering card counting useless.

-- Homer

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
but has any jurisdiction ruled that card counting is illegal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I know of. Nevada counters don't want an AC situation in Vegas; they both idolize and revile the late Kenny Uston, who brought the case that legalized and destroyed counting in New Jersey. They prefer the tense relationship that prevails now to EV like that.

Check out threads at Cardcounter.com, BJ21.com, and the archives at the Yahoo group Blackjack Card Counters' Cafe. You'll find more discussion on your topic than you ever wanted.

[PlayerA]

Try +EV video poker. Except for one instance in Michigan, I haven't heard of VP players being barred. I guess the stakes are lower.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Except for one instance in Michigan, I haven't heard of VP players being barred.

[/ QUOTE ]

What! Whats the story behind that?