Why is Andy Fox a mench?

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
I posted something like this before, but it seems relevant to your point: were I walking down a dark alley and three brutish types were walking behind me, I'd feel better knowing they just came out of church than if they just came out of, say, the bowling alley.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Andy, isn't it equally likely that either group of men would want to relieve you of your money? Just because their methods might be different doesn't make one group any better or worse than the other.

To me it is comparable to the difference between an armed robber and a pickpocket. At least the armed robber is upfront with his intentions. Those sneaky parishoners creep up from behind and snag your cash. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Jimbo

[David Sklansky]

"You really are a mensch."

Most of whom you believe will go to hell.

[andyfox]

I have no statistics to back it up, but I would be willing to bet that I'm less likely to be mugged in the alley by the church-goers than the bowlers. As for white collar crime (or what used to be called white collar crime), I don't know; my guess would be that I'm equally likely to be fleeced by the church-goers as the bowlers.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
"You really are a mensch."

Most of whom you believe will go to hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that as many as possible will be saved. That has been my motivation in making my recent posts. I hope that they have been of help to someone, although I really don't know.

[David Sklansky]

If you are as a nice guy as you seem to be. And if Andy Fox is as nice a guy as he seems to both of us. And if you really believe what you say. Then you must be constantly tormented by the fact that you think Andy will fry in hell. So much for your religion making you happy.

[SevenStuda]

lol

[Gamblor]

Who says religion is supposed to make you happy?

Care to expound on your religious knowledge? How about youexplain to us where your ideas on religion (and more importantly, what religion is) come from?

I submit that there are two kinds of religion:

1) A belief system used to govern one's daily actions via a system of ethics and laws so as to live a productive and positive lifestyle.

2) A political system used to control others and manipulate people into living a lifestyle that serves you, as "chief" of the religion.

I submit that Judaism, with no central figure as the chief of the religion, can not possibly be subject to the evils of the latter and can only enjoy the benefits of the former. Bastardized versions of the religion notwithstanding.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are as a nice guy as you seem to be. And if Andy Fox is as nice a guy as he seems to both of us. And if you really believe what you say. Then you must be constantly tormented by the fact that you think Andy will fry in hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why tormented? According to the typical Christian belief system, it's ultimately Andy's responsibility to do what needs to be done in order to be saved. Felson can offer advice and encouragement, but it's not his fault if Andy doesn't take it.

If a friend of mine had a gambling problem that was destroying his life, I'd do what I could to save him; but if it turned out he couldn't be saved, I'd feel sadness, not torment.


[ QUOTE ]
So much for your religion making you happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, how about this: I don't think Andy is going to go to hell when he dies, I think he's just going to cease to exist. It's kind of a bummer, but there's nothing I can do about it. So does my acceptance of a somewhat sad fact invalidate my atheist worldview? Should it prevent me from being happy about other things? Or is it simply a mark of maturity that I am able to function and even enjoy life in the face of unpleasant realities?

-- M. Ruff

[David Sklansky]

"Why tormented? According to the typical Christian belief system, it's ultimately Andy's responsibility to do what needs to be done in order to be saved. Felson can offer advice and encouragement, but it's not his fault if Andy doesn't take it.

If a friend of mine had a gambling problem that was destroying his life, I'd do what I could to save him; but if it turned out he couldn't be saved, I'd feel sadness, not torment."

Bad analogy. Because it is clear cut that that he should change.

"OK, how about this: I don't think Andy is going to go to hell when he dies, I think he's just going to cease to exist. It's kind of a bummer, but there's nothing I can do about it"

Bad analogy. Because ceasing to exist is not nearly as bad as going to hell. Plus you admit there is nothing you can do about it. Felson thinks there is, but can't figure out how to persuade Andy. Thus he should be more upset with Andy's fate than you.

Of course Felson's alternative is to realize that even in the unlikely event that a precisely defined god created the universe, and even in the more unlikely event that he intercedes in it nowadays, and even in the still yet more unlikely event that he pays great attention to human beings on one of the quadrillions of planets, it is ridiculous to believe that he greatly rewards the 10% of the worlds's population that believes a specific story no matter how "un nice" they are while horrifyingly punishing the most wonderful people who are either sceptical or are pious about somewhat different religions but still believe in him.

[Mayhap]

But bowlers usually have more balls than church-goers.
/M