Choose Your Own

[Phat Mack]

I finally got to play some Choose Your Own. Choose your own is a 5-card stud game introduced here by 2+2 poker historian Al Mirpuri:

"After the first round of betting (everything the same as Five Stud), the upcards for third street are dealt in the center (one upcard for each active player) and the low board gets to choose which upcard he wants, and then the next lowest board chooses, and so on. Then a round of betting. This is repeated until all the active players have four upcards and you then have a round of betting and a showdown."

Interesting game. We were playing it 5-handed for straight $1 limit, with the high card bringing it in for $1. If I play it again, I think I'll tweak the betting structure. It might be fun PL or 1-2-3-4. I thought I'd offer some comments.

Being dealt a high pair is bad, and any high up-card is bad, because you'll be last to choose on 3rd street, and the other players will keep you from improving.

A hand like (A) 2 is good because you'll have first choice on the next pick. We had 4 or 5 players seeing their third card, so there was plenty to choose from on most hands. An A would be a good pick, as well as another wheel card since a third wheel card would virtually guarantee first pick on the next round.

I kept above philosophy in mind, playing suited cards with a low showing, low pairs, and low connectors; always trying to fit on 3rd street with a card that would perpetuate my first pick.

Picking a card that paired an up card pretty much finished the development of a hand since it would be moved to later on the picking order, and the other players wouldn't allow further improvement unless doing so would lock them into a better hand. One time I had (5)54 and picked a 4 for 4th street. This proved to be a mistake since 2 pair was no lock, and I lost my right for first pick on the last card against some straight and flush draws.

There is a lot of defense in this game, picks must be made to prevent improvement to other players, and/or to kill their hands by dinking a straight or flush draw or forcing them into tough decisions as to whether they should improve of defend.

Choose Your Own is a game of ad hoc collusion, where if you make the correct defensive play, you are relying on others to do the same. But it also, reminiscent of Push, an open door to team play.

Here's a hand:

I have (5)5h, 2h
Player 2 (x)Ks, Tc
Player 3 (x)Qd, Jd

4th street spread: 2s, Kd, Qc

If I choose the 2s, I'll have 2 pair, but Player 3 has next pick and can give herself a pair of Q's (knowing that doing so will give Player 2 a pair of K's), or she can take the Kd, giving herself a (x)Qd, Jd,Kd. If she takes the Kd, I don't know if she is blocking Player 2 or building a straight or flush. If she picks the Q she must feel she can beat KK, and therefore my two pair. To go even further, if she does pick the Q, I will still have first pick on the last round and three shots at filling.

On the other hand, if I take her Q and she takes Player 2's K, I may have the best hand as well as the first pick from the final spread, but I gain little information about my opponents.

What's the correct play?

[Al Mirpuri]

It was kind of you to call me a poker historian.

Not that you implied it but to make it absolutely clear to everyone: I am not the originator of Choose Your Own but found it on the Internet. It was suggested as a Seven Card Stud variant by the creator (I presume he was the creator of it) with a Five Card Stud variant form.

It does bear obvious similarities to Push in that it has an defensive and offensive element. There is a trade off between improving your hand and impeding the improvement of your opponents' hands.

I disagree in that I think a big wired pair/two high cards have to be raised on second street to get the pot heads up against any limper/bring-in.

As for your question: I would take the two as it gives one two pair and you still retain the right to first pick. However, it should be noted that in your given example, if either player is already paired then whatever you choose does no good. Taking the two is good only if neither player is already paired as it gives you two pair and them a pair each at best.

There is a lot of strategy with choosing but I will leave you all to figure it out.

I have not got to play this competitively yet.

I am glad you have. But one caveat: beware of multiway pots.

[Phat Mack]

I disagree in that I think a big wired pair/two high cards have to be raised on second street to get the pot heads up against any limper/bring-in.

On early streets, heads up play was virtually impossible in this game, perhaps because of the betting structure, the low stakes, or the conviviality of the group.

But one caveat: beware of multiway pots.

Multiway pots are indeed dangerous, but they made the game extremely interesting. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The multiway game is replete with hand-reading opportunities, not only from boards and betting, but from card choices as well. Since this was a new game in a social atmosphere, many of the players were doing their thinking out loud, so it was interesting to see how they were approaching the game.

The average winning hand was probably two pair or better, with plenty of straights and flushes, and occassional full houses, shown down, so Choose Your Own was more attractive to the players than the average 5-stud game.

I think playing Choose Your Own as lowball would make it too simple, but an 8- or 9-handed game played hi-lo might be worth looking at if it had a different picking order.

Thanks for calling this game to our attention. It was well worth playing.

[Al Mirpuri]

Did you not find the problem that it shares with Take It or Leave It (aka Push) that poor card pick choices by some players allow others to draw out on you?

[Phat Mack]

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Did you not find the problem that it shares with Take It or Leave It (aka Push) that poor card pick choices by some players allow others to draw out on you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's one problem. In Push, also, you'll find a couple of buddies sitting next to each other, with one helping to make the other's hand. I didn't see that at this game, but I saw that it easily would be possible.

We were playing Choose Your Own while trying to make a table for a bigger flop game. The play was pretty savy; even a couple of the younger players appeared to have stud experience.

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
I kept above philosophy in mind, playing suited cards with a low showing, low pairs, and low connectors; always trying to fit on 3rd street with a card that would perpetuate my first pick.


Picking a card that paired an up card pretty much finished the development of a hand since it would be moved to later on the picking order, and the other players wouldn't allow further improvement unless doing so would lock them into a better hand. One time I had (5)54 and picked a 4 for 4th street. This proved to be a mistake since 2 pair was no lock, and I lost my right for first pick on the last card against some straight and flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

These two points are real insights. Thanks.