Quitting Your Job Articles

[BarronVangorToth]

There is an interesting quandry as the people who need to hear the pessimistic advice will oftentimes think it doesn't apply to them and the people who know it doesn't apply to them are smart enough to realize that maybe they're wrong and are really falling into Group A.

Personally, since most of my friends are affluent, I know it doesn't matter if they get into poker and lose a few hundred, a few thousand, tens of thousands of dollars. PLUS, I know they're smart, so they invariably can at least have poker as a break-even hobby ... and, if not, the money lost at a $5-$10 $10-$20 game is meaningless.

So I have no problem encouraging people that I know that getting into poker is a fun thing, buying them a set of the 2+2 library and ushering them into our wacky world.

Would I be as gung-ho with someone making a mediocre living, that I didn't think had a good chance, with a family to support...? I don't think so.

Many people see the fast cash as an answer and if you're in a position in life where you need the fast cash, poker invariably isn't for you.

But it is for soooooooo many people.

There are lots of questions and lots of variables which is why smart guys like Dr. Al, Mason, and many others can debate the pro's and con's.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Horse:

I had a contract to do my first book with Gambling Times. The book was delivered in 1985, but they never published it. So I had to hire an attorney and wrestle my book back. This occurred after I moved to Las Vegas, not before, and it was expensive to do this.

I then self published my first book in 1987, and it was followed shortly by two others I put together. In 1988, I decided to have books printed instead of producing "xerox" copies. This was again expensive and so it went.

As the company grew, even though I theorectically was making more from publishing than playing poker, all profits were being reinvested into the company. If I wasn't successful playing poker, Two Plus Two would not exist as we know it.

Today of course things are quie different. We have become very successful. But there were many sacrifices along the way and writing and publishing, even though it has now paid off, actually made things tougher on me for many years.

Best wishes,
Mason

[PokerHorse]

thanks for explaining it.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
But there was one other thing that would be very different. I would now enjoy my life and have the freedom that I wanted. Yes there was risk involved in what I planned. But it was a risk I wanted to take, and if things didn't work out, I would face that fact that when the time came.


[/ QUOTE ]

But you also weren't still in college or highschool. You had much more under your belt (even just life experience-wise) when you made that decision than many who we see on the forum thinking of making that decision. Hell, many of them are still living with their parents and haven't really developed the concept of monthly bills or the value of money yet.

You do remember how much you 'thought' you knew when you were under 22 than when you look back now, don't you? I think that's what both Al and Ed are primarily targeting. That type of mentality.

b

[iMcompliKted]

I think an overlooked point is that almost any professional poker player would be making more money at another type of job. The discipline and fortitude required to be a pro are tremendous and better compensated in other lines of work. So many choose the life because they don't want to work for anybody else, but soon discover playing poker for a living is a lot of work and comes with its own sacrifices.

http://thispokerlife.blogspot.com

[grandgnu]

Mason, you make some great points. There are other factors to consider in these situations.

Personally, I believe life is way too short to spend it working 70 hours a week. At my current job, I had the opportunity to make more money and hold a management position. But I've been there before, and it can be an extremely miserable lifestyle.

I opted to remain one of the grunts, but through careful management of my monthly expenses (i.e. not purchasing all kinds of goodies on credit, cooking food at home instead of eating out all the time) I'm able to work 32 hours per week by choice (instead of 40-48) and live well.

Can I afford to purchase a home at this point in my life? Unfortunately, no, I cannot. But I don't have 50K in credit card debt dragging me down, and I DO have a lot more freedom.

I'm going "semi-pro" as a poker player. I have studied and played 7-stud, stud hi/lo, Omaha hi/lo and NL Hold 'Em as the games I enjoy and consider myself well-versed in playing. I don't depend on poker to pay the bills, but I'm giving it a shot to see how well I can do.

While going full pro is always an option, it won't be a possibility until I have 6 months living expenses saved up, and a sizeable bankroll for whichever game(s) and limit(s) I intend to play.

I know a number of people who work 3 jobs and 70-100 hours EVERY week to cover their expenses. They live beyond their means, they cheat themselves out of overtime by working multiple jobs, and they aren't "getting ahead" or happy at all.

I have Monday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday off on a regular basis, and it makes life a hell of a lot more enjoyable (and it makes playing poker much more accessible)

[4thstreetpete]

A very well written post Mason. I'll have to agree that Dr A was being a little to pessimistic but nonetheless the message that he was trying to convey is very real. I think it's quite honorable for him to go at length on this particular debate while the majority do not agree with him.

He has a lot more life experience here than most of us do and I will heed his warnings.
As for my own personal experiences, how many times have I asked myself "if I only knew at 19 what I know now." He's right, making a living off poker is not easy.

I have a good relationship with senior management and I've had many opportunities to be promoted to management. The money would be nice but it would require me to work many more hours than I do now and I WILL be miserable. For me it's never been about the money. Lately my boss has been pushing me pretty hard and frankly I've been running out of excuses, I just try to avoid the situation altogether.
The main reason why I haven't taken the position is because
I've decided that I do want to go pro. Like you Mason, much of my motivation for going pro was the freedom and never about the money. I'm currently playing at limits way below my means and bankroll because that's where I feel comfortable. I win continue studying and saving. When the time comes I will be fully prepared.

[mackthefork]

I also agree that Dr Al is a little OTT sometimes, but it is with good intent, besides how bad of a message can wait until you finish your degree be? Also a large number of the kids trying or thinking about going pro are not going to be any better than mediocre, you are most of the guys in this thread are well above average intelligence, so you have a massively increased chance of success at a game like poker. I definitely take your point about having personal freedom though, it is surely worth sacrificing some cash for, it is for me anyways.

Regards Mack

[Peter666]

Damn straight. Give me freedom (which the poker lifestyle can provide to a greater degree than other careers) or give me death.

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually somewhat concerned about the articles on "Quitting Your Day Job" that Dr. Alan Schoonmaker is writing. I think there are several major points that he's missing, and I find the articles in direct contrast to my view of playing poker very seriously, as well as being way too pessimistic and downright depressing.


[/ QUOTE ]

His article isn't pessimistic enough. Oh sure, everyone on 2+2 makes their 5BB/100 and everything is hunky-dorry. But this isn't life in the real world. Most poker players (including many, many pros) are really struggling. Struggling hard.

Some like Mason, David and Ray have been quite successful, but this is the exception, not the rule. The Doc hits the nail on the head for most of the working professionals and semi-professionals. He should be pessimistic, and it is a depressing life. A lot of you "kids" have only been doing this a short time, and think everything is peaches and cream. Wait until you've got ten years under your belt.

I had seven winning years in a row until I had my first losing year, and the year after that I struggled--and I'm a damn good player. I thought I couldn't lose, but I learned first hand what variance was all about.

Some have been very successful, and think the Doc has gone too far. The rest of us understand that he knows exactly what he's talking about.