Give me a better line

[Aloysius]

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c/r a-i

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With hero being short-stacked in relation to the pot, would this actually accomplish anything that open-pushing wouldn't do?

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Gives villain a chance to bet with AK or a worse made hand.

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or allows villian to check ak off or aq club and draw for free. with him being short stacked if hes going to draw its better to just put it in on the flop then have him bet it for you. IMO

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It's always a risk to give a free-card, but when you are likely way ahead - it's worth the risk to maximize profits. I know this is a very simple idea, but it's one that often eludes me in game situations and I have to constantly remind myself of.

AcQc one of the worst hands out there to allow a free card - as you're only slightly ahead of that hand on the flop. But remember that's worst case - if you're not beat, you're most likely way ahead. If you don't risk a free card in this spot, when would you? Never?

[the machine]

very situational. with aces i may let him bet in but with a possibility of 11 outs 2 times im gonna make him put it in here. theres enough money in the pot where if i get him to fold aq club for whatever reason (which has happened seen people fold for 11 dollars into a 200 dollar pot, sometimes people make silly mistakes) i will be happy enough with the pot. the hand has a high risk/reward, just depends how much of a risk you are willing to take in this case

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It's always a risk to give a free-card, but when you are likely way ahead - it's worth the risk to maximize profits. I know this is a very simple idea, but it's one that often eludes me in game situations and I have to constantly remind myself of.

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this is money.

Is a PF 3bet push hilariously donkish at these stakes? Because that's my standard play at 25/50/100NL 6max (and what I think I would do here [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]).

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It's always a risk to give a free-card, but when you are likely way ahead - it's worth the risk to maximize profits. I know this is a very simple idea, but it's one that often eludes me in game situations and I have to constantly remind myself of.

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this is money.

Is a PF 3bet push hilariously donkish at these stakes? Because that's my standard play at 25/50/100NL 6max (and what I think I would do here [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]).

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I think the 400NL plays a bit differently...

As an aside, theoretically if the hand played out the same except the villian pushes after your 3bet, how deep does your stack have to be to consider a fold? I would not consider folding KK below 200 NL except in the very rarest of circumstances, just wondering about it here...

[KowCiller]

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c/r a-i

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With hero being short-stacked in relation to the pot, would this actually accomplish anything that open-pushing wouldn't do?

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Gives villain a chance to bet with AK or a worse made hand.

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or allows villian to check ak off or aq club and draw for free. with him being short stacked if hes going to draw its better to just put it in on the flop then have him bet it for you. IMO

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Everyone that's advocating a preflop 3-bet and a flop push is making it very very hard for the villain to make a mistake against you. If villain is a donk who calls too much and will pay off with any overpair and some underpairs on this board, then clearly this is the best line. If villain has 1/2 a brain, you'll never get called postflop unless you're beat or have a hellacious image.

The answer is either: a) don't 3bet preflop or b) checkraise the flop

Here's another thing to think about... what's easier to induce your typical villains to do, 1) make a big call for a > pot size bet after showing massive strength on the previous street or 2) get them to bet more hands in position than they'll call with. Most I play with fall into #2. If you play with more #1s then therein lies your answer.

KoW

[Kyriefurro]

First off...good point KoW. This is an aspect that I hadn't thought of, and this type of thinking is something I need to work on incorporating into my game.

Thought about this a lot last night and in the shower this morning. So, I ran some hands on Poker Stove.

If I give villain a tight re-raise range here (JJ+, and AK) then hero has 70% equity in this pot (number are from memory, so they just approximations). Adding AQs, AJs and KQs to villain's range makes no significant equity change. If I increase villain's range to the loosest possible range I had in mind (all suited broadway, all pairs 77+, and all suited connectors 56+), heros equity INCREASES to about 78%.

Only by specifying that the AQs, AJs, and KQs in my second scenerio were all clubs did I create a negative impact on hero's equity, but it only dropped down to 60%.

So, mathematically, hero is WAY ahead of ALL of villains possible hand ranges. Since hero has a significant equity edge he wants to get as many chips in the center as possible - we DON'T want villain to fold (change from my original thinking, btw). The question now is what's the best way to do that?

Since villain re-raised PF, it seems he likes his hand. If we check, I'm guessing he'll bet....so I like the check-raise idea now.

P.S. Thanks to everyone for helping me correct my thinking here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]