2nd nut flush on four flush board

Peter · #1 12-12-2005, 06:43 AM

Opponent is 20/13/1.18 after only 55 hands.

Does anyone see a good reason to raise the river with the second nut flush in this case?
What about the rest of the hand?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Peter is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Peter raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Peter calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Peter calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Peter calls.

River: (6.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Peter raises

Kimpan · #2 12-12-2005, 06:55 AM

how is raising the turn here?

Peter · #3 12-12-2005, 07:12 AM

If you raise the turn and don't improve, do you check behind on the river?

Peter

imported_ncray · #4 12-12-2005, 07:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
how is raising the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a turn raise is bad in this situation. With a low flush card, a raise seems like an obvious semibluff attempt. Basically the 3 isn't a scare card. I don't think you have any fold equity, and the raise is definitely not for value. Being 3-bet would also be terrible. Calling is good.

kiddo · #5 12-12-2005, 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think a turn raise is bad in this situation. With a low flush card, a raise seems like an obvious semibluff attempt. Basically the 3 isn't a scare card. I don't think you have any fold equity, and the raise is definitely not for value. Being 3-bet would also be terrible. Calling is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only reason to not cap preflop when BB 3bet against stealraise is for deception. So if we dont raise flop or turn with this pretty ok board, we should cap preflop.

We are raising turn here because a preflop 3bettor will normally bet flop and turn no matter if he hit or not so we could very well be ahead and we got 15 outs for toppair or better. And if river is another blank we will normally have to call AK unimproved since we played it so weak.

*

If I called this preflop I would normally attack on flop when I still thought I was ahead, instead of giving other guy another cheap card. AK on a Qxx flop, its a great hand.

I would not raise this river if I just called all way. Why would he bet a low flush, we raised preflop so chance we are calling an even lower flush isnt that big. And if he is bluffing he will fold when we raise. And A will 3bet.

philnewall · #6 12-12-2005, 11:15 AM

River raise is fine but I ain't calling a 3-bet.

Peter · #7 12-12-2005, 11:26 AM

I sometimes have difficulties folding when 3bet in these spots. Would it be best to not raise in that case?

Peter · #8 12-12-2005, 11:25 AM

I get the feeling from your post that you think I have AK. I don't. Please read the hand again.

kiddo · #9 12-12-2005, 12:15 PM

Yep, Im sorry.

Noone told u to fold flop? He is tight and tight players often dont like to 3bet out of position so u are sitting with a likely dominated hand and one overcard.

Not saying u have to fold flop, but what handrange do u put him on since u call? None of your outs are clean so its pretty complicated.

The Truth · #10 12-12-2005, 07:00 AM

I would like to see his WTS. I think a river raise is necessary here.

blake