Trying out some new garbage

Being inspired by threads on blind stealing here and elsewhere, I've recently started to increase my focus on stealing from the CO or the button. Now I play low limits on party so these opportunities do not come around all that often, but what I'm noticing on a small sample size is that these can be very profitable plays. I've used PT and have found a +EV with hands that I would normally muck preflop with limpers.

Hands that I used the limp on the CO or button are now raises (J10o). I never limp first in from the CO or button anymore, if I go in first here, it's with a raise.

From the CO I'll raise A-Jx(s/o), from the Button pretty much any 2 cards. The CO plays depend on the style of the Button of course.

Notes of the garbage hand plays:
This is very player dependent; Might not be wise if the BB is an someone with lots of flops seen.
SB coming in generally is bad news.

What do you think of this overall strategy?
Downsides?

[gharp]

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From the CO I'll raise A-Jx(s/o), from the Button pretty much any 2 cards. The CO plays depend on the style of the Button of course.


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I think you're pushing the boundaries of profitability if you're raising stuff like J2o from the CO or button. I'm surprised this would work in the micros, where you're more likely to get called down by any piece of the board.

Over how many hands have you been "trying out this garbage"?

[tiltaholic]

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I've recently started to increase my focus on stealing from the CO or the button.

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good.

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Hands that I used the limp on the CO or button are now raises (J10o). I never limp first in from the CO or button anymore, if I go in first here, it's with a raise.

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good. (assuming you are talking about open-raising with JTo, not raising a bunch of limpers) i'll stress that there are extremely rare cases in which one should open limp from CO or button, but basically, never do it.

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From the CO I'll raise A-Jx(s/o), from the Button pretty much any 2 cards. The CO plays depend on the style of the Button of course.

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this gets gray and is obviously player dependent. it's probably a losing strategy to do this against a loose button, sb and bb. it's probably a winning strategy against a tight set of opponents...so, it depends...personally, i'd need a pretty good read to start doing this with any jack.

[jrz1972]

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From the CO I'll raise A-Jx(s/o), from the Button pretty much any 2 cards.

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This is going way too far. In ML, you're going to be getting called a lot by the blinds, so you want your steal-raises to have some value associated with them.

[aargh57]

I'd agree with the rest of the posters that you're going to have to tighten up some with your steal raises on the button even with reads. I think SSH says something about the rake having an effect at the low limits when you try to use this play. However, if you'r first in in MP or later I never open limp. If it's folded to you in LP definitely raise or fold (I guess you could argue that against squeky tight blinds you may want to limp with AA or KK but I hardly ever do.)

[irishpint]

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From the CO I'll raise A-Jx(s/o), from the Button pretty much any 2 cards.

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This is going way too far. In ML, you're going to be getting called a lot by the blinds, so you want your steal-raises to have some value associated with them.

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yess

[lautzutao]

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I'd agree with the rest of the posters that you're going to have to tighten up some with your steal raises on the button even with reads. I think SSH says something about the rake having an effect at the low limits when you try to use this play. However, if you'r first in in MP or later I never open limp. If it's folded to you in LP definitely raise or fold (I guess you could argue that against squeky tight blinds you may want to limp with AA or KK but I hardly ever do.)

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Tightening up due to rake is more for calling out of the blinds(especially SB). It isn't worth it to defend out of position with a possibly weaker hand AND with the huge rake.

*EDIT But I gotta say that if you're stealing with hands as weak as Jx then you're stealing too much and you'll run into two problems.

1. The tight players are going to play back and have the better hand
2. The fish are going to call down and have a better hand.

I'm all for stealing a lot, lord knows I'm almost a maniac open raising from CO/button, but I think hands like that are pushing it. Stick to Kx, Ax, broadways, pairs, suited connectors. That should give you plenty of material [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Well I looked at my poker tracker filters and I'm running at .32BB per attempt with junk hands (Junk hands like A9o, medium-low 1gappers and worse, like 73o). Hands I used to normally muck. Granted, I've only had 110 opportunities where I tried this. It's clearly a table feel situation here as to what you can get away with and how often you should try. If I get caught or am getting too much action too often, I settle down awhile.

I think I need to come to a medium baseline, but some of those suggested are too tight.

What % attempt to steal seems optimal? As much as you can get away with. Seriously though, I'm probably around 50% or more at some tables.

Maybe I'm becoming a schizo player, tight in EP &amp; MP, and a madman in LP.

Plus it's so much fun, cause it is so naughty. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Vote4Pedro]

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I never limp first in from the CO or button anymore, if I go in first here, it's with a raise.


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Good...personally I hate open-limping from anywhere other then EP.

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from the Button pretty much any 2 cards

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Unless youre trying to make your PT stats look cooler, I suggest you abandon this strategy and pick your spots to steal

With all respect, it's not about making my stats cooler (except my overall BB/100 stat).

I'm trying to see if this is an overall +EV strategy that I should be pursuing and to what length.