Is this a value bet?

TheWorstPlayer · #1 04-24-2005, 04:14 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero...?

And how'd I do so far?

milesdyson · #2 04-24-2005, 04:25 AM

Preflop limp is okay with loose passive guys behind, flat calling the flop is fine.

I don't like raising the turn. I don't really like calling the turn, either. That was one of the worst possible cards you could have seen (9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] > 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] > A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] > A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in terms of how good they are for you). So I would really opt to fold this on the turn.

If I didn't fold, I would use those 2 BB to showdown (call/call).

If I raised, I would check the river through and expect to lose nearly 95% of the time.

Lmn55d · #3 04-24-2005, 04:38 AM

fold preflop

TheWorstPlayer · #4 04-24-2005, 04:43 AM

Are you playing the same games I am? There hasnt been any raise on the turn, so I doubt there is a straight or a flush so I raised to protect my hand against single clubs and one pair hands looking to improve. Notice that the flop bettor is not the turn bettor, so I am not worried at all about a better K.

Anyways, glad to see you agree that I should check the river. Can you just explain why you like checking the river?

McGahee · #5 04-24-2005, 04:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you playing the same games I am? There hasnt been any raise on the turn, so I doubt there is a straight or a flush so I raised to protect my hand against single clubs and one pair hands looking to improve. Notice that the flop bettor is not the turn bettor, so I am not worried at all about a better K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm weak, but the fact that the turn bettor isn't the flop bettor worries me. People that "wake up" on 4th street in a multi-way pot are rarely bluffing on a draw-heavy board.

milesdyson · #6 04-24-2005, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you playing the same games I am? There hasnt been any raise on the turn, so I doubt there is a straight or a flush so I raised to protect my hand against single clubs and one pair hands looking to improve. Notice that the flop bettor is not the turn bettor, so I am not worried at all about a better K.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think the turn bettor is betting? I'd say in general you're behind it. I can't see him betting a worse hand here.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, glad to see you agree that I should check the river. Can you just explain why you like checking the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
I like checking the river because I think one of the other two players in the pot with me is trying to check raise me a good % of the time, and I'm perfectly happy with taking the free showdown that raising the turn earned me.

TheWorstPlayer · #7 04-24-2005, 05:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like checking the river because I think one of the other two players in the pot with me is trying to check raise me a good % of the time, and I'm perfectly happy with taking the free showdown that raising the turn earned me.

[/ QUOTE ]
My thoughts were along the same lines, but why not 3 bet the turn with a hand that is beating mine, unless it is two pair or a set which just wants a cheap showdown...?

C-Dog · #8 04-24-2005, 05:11 AM

I would have folded the PF, but barring that I would have raised the Flop to pretend like it will push out some draws. When the better wakes up on the turn, I would probably call down, but maybe even fold, since you are probably not ahead. You would have a better idea though if you had raised the Flop. Check the river though definitely seems good though.

C-Dog

aK13 · #9 04-24-2005, 05:44 AM

I don't like raising the turn, since theres a 4 straight and you have TP with no kicker.

Shillx · #10 04-24-2005, 05:52 AM

With a bet and 2 calls on this board, I would have folded the flop. When the flop is K52 or something, you are going ot have to get involved but knowing when to hold onto top pair kings and knowing when to let go is what makes this hand playable in this spot. Imo you are going to be taking the worst of it by calling on the flop. You have to consider that by calling on the flop, you are pretty much investing another 2 BB if a good turn card falls so it can get expensive if you are wrong here (and this is an unraised pot). In this hand you did not get a good turn card. Doing anything other then folding is reckless imo.

Brad