A7 suited hand

Jeff P · #1 05-03-2005, 11:42 PM

My general reads on the opponents are that MP2 is loose and aggressive, but not to the point of maniac, and MP3 is loose and passive.

I'm really confused as to how to play this hand. I'll write down my thoughts, to show my thought process. Comments on the entire action are welcome.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB checks.

I think the pre-flop limp is pretty standard. If raising was the correct play, I don't understand why.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

I have an overcard worth about 1.5 outs, a BDFD, and a 1-card OESD. This gives me pot odds to call a bet, but I don't think I have enough pot equity to bet out here.

Turn: (4.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, BB folds.

Now I have top pair with a weak kicker. When it's checked to me, I bet out. I'm thinking the flop bettor could have a straight draw, or a lower pair. Betting felt like the better of the two options (check/bet).

River: (7.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

This was somewhat of a crying call. I wasn't going to be overly surprised to win, but I wasn't going to be surprised if I didn't. (My state of mind right now is pretty fatalistic due to a bad run).

dedmoney · #2 05-03-2005, 11:49 PM

With three folding in front, I probably would play this hand, but I'm pretty tight with Axs until MP3 until I know how many are going to be in the flop. You're looking for the flush draw on the flop, even your A is vulnerable.

If I played it, I would have plaed it pretty similiarly. No raising going on, so it's tough to put somoen on a flush. Problem is you're low end of the straigh, so probably the upper end is counterfeited, I'd give it one out of the four, but I'm horrible at figuring outs.

Flop and river seem pretty straight forward to me. It's amarginal hand, but in the micros, I'm not surprised if you win it 20% of the time.

davelin · #3 05-03-2005, 11:51 PM

Don't limp in this spot. If you don't understand why think about it this way, is your raising standards different in a 10-handed game, 6-handed game, heads-up game? Why?

GrunchCan · #4 05-03-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty tight with Axs until MP3

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sort of backwards. You can limp Axs UTG. The closer to the middle it gets when its folded around to you, the worse it is for you. Then it gets better again as you get closer to the button.

GrunchCan · #5 05-03-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have an overcard worth about 1.5 outs, a BDFD, and a 1-card OESD.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many outs total do you value your hand at?

Jeff P · #6 05-04-2005, 12:04 AM

On the flop with I roughly counted my outs as:

overcard = 1 - 1.5 outs (I didn't count it as a full 3 outs)
BDFD = 1.5, since it is to the nut flush
OESD = roughly 5 or 6, discounting it since I only have one card and I have the low end

As I was playing the hand, I did the quick, rough calculation to 8 outs. There were 10 small bets in the pot when it was to me, so I knew I had enough odds to call one bet.

KaiShin · #7 05-04-2005, 12:10 AM

The PF limp isn't standard in your position. You're essentially UTG in what is now a 7-handed game. I would raise or fold it PF here, personally I fold.

Firefly · #8 05-04-2005, 12:10 AM

I'm betting this river. I expect to get called by a T or JJ enough for this to be profitable. I'm not particularly scared of that 9 to be honest. I'm more scared of a 7. I mean if you want to call, why not put in the bet yourself?
Depending on the table, you could also raise PF.

GrunchCan · #9 05-04-2005, 12:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop with I roughly counted my outs as:

overcard = 1 - 1.5 outs (I didn't count it as a full 3 outs)
BDFD = 1.5, since it is to the nut flush
OESD = roughly 5 or 6, discounting it since I only have one card and I have the low end

As I was playing the hand, I did the quick, rough calculation to 8 outs. There were 10 small bets in the pot when it was to me, so I knew I had enough odds to call one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've overvalued your hand by a wide margian.

First, the OC isn't worth 1.5 outs, b/c you won't win with it if you spike your ace 50% of the time. Maybe you'll win 1/3 of the time or less. I'd say the OC is worth .75 outs. Maybe.

The BDFD is in fact worth 1.5 outs.

The OESD is pretty crappy. It's 1-card to the ignorant end. If a J come you lose to any Q, a 7 to any J even if you hit. I'd put the OESD at 3-4 outs.

So your hand is worth on the order of 5 outs, not 8. You need your hand to be worth about 7 outs, which I think its definitely not. I'll fold the flop without hesitation.

MrWookie47 · #10 05-04-2005, 12:27 AM

While I may not be the fastest ship in the fleet after having had a few beers tonight, it looks to me that if a 6 drops, hero loses to J7 and QJ, not any J. I'd be inclinded to give him 4 full outs, since the 6's aren't totally full outs, but the J's aren't worthless, either. Is the booze-ohol causing me to miss something?