pocket eights with rag flop...

[Jeoke]

Most the opponents were fishy.
I didnt want to bet this on the flop because i thought with so many people in the hand someone would most likely out draw me by the river and im out of position.

Looking back now, im still not sure if i played the flop and turn correct. i never know what to do with missed sets because i have so few outs. I also think i should of raised the river, he probably had a set at best since he bet out the flop. I guess i was worried he had a higher straight but that doesnt seem right now that i think about it...

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt want to bet this on the flop because i thought with so many people in the hand someone would most likely out draw me by the river and im out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a terrible, terrible thought process and approach - very weak-tight play.

Bet the flop; probably 3-bet a raise. You have an overpair and a backdoor straight. There's a very, very strong chance you have the best hand at this point (no one raised pre-flop). The backdoor straight draw is gravy and strengthens your hand further.

Hard to predict what the turn looks like after the flop action described above, but you should almost certainly bet the turn (and probably reraise if it gets raised, depending on the flop action).

Bet and 3-bet the river - hope it gets capped. The only -- only -- hand that beats you is T8, and you already have 2 of the possible four 8s.

You left a ton of money on the table in this hand.

Returning to the quote above:

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt want to bet this on the flop because i thought with so many people in the hand someone would most likely out draw me by the river and im out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really want to drive people out so that they can't draw out on you, you need to be very aggressive and charge them to draw by betting and raising. I don't think you necessarily want to drive people out on that flop, but in any event, betting and raising drives people out, checking and calling does not. If you're so worried about someone drawing out on you, why in the world do you call down through the entire hand -- just fold it if you thing you're destined to lose?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're employing some very muddled thinking in your approach and play of this hand.

[zuluking]

Joeke, if want to get serious about making money in LLHE then purchase and read SSHE by Ed Miller available on this here website.

Bet the flop and re-raise if necessary.

Bet the turn and re-raise if necessary.

Bet the river and re-raise if necessary.

[Jeff P]

I would bet out on this flop. This is a good flop for your hand (you'd rather have a rainbow of suits, but still not bad). It is hard to protect your hand with bad position, but I don't think you want this flop to get checked through, allowing people to draw to overcards or straights and flushes for free. I would also probably call a raise on the flop, as it could be someone with a flush or straight draw trying a free card play.

Depending on the flop action (whether it was light or heavy) would determine my choice on the turn. If there was heavy action on the flop, now that you have picked up an OESD, I would want to draw to the straight cheaply. If you weren't met with any resistance on the flop, I would fire a bet on the turn.

On the river you need to raise here, your hand is very likely the best hand. By now I put UTG on a decent pp higher than 88, and I think your straight is good here.

[Jeoke]

Thanks for the criticism Catt, someone needed to pound this though my head.
I dont really know what to say. i know that i should of tried to drive out my opponents, but apparently i dont apply it when it counts the most.
I have noticed lately that i have been doing a lot of things im learning but in the wrong places... dont know where i came up with this idea though. I probably just have to stop being lazy and pay more attention when im playing.
I have already read ITH and im getting SSHE later this week, I will make sure to pay attention to this type of stuff.
Once again, Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Catt]

Happy to provide a critique you found valuable. Read and reread ITH, and read and reread SSHE. The fact that you're reading and studying these books, and the fact that you've found these forums, puts you ahead of most players you'll encounter, so consider yourself well on your way to a much stronger game.

[3rdEye]

Why didn't you raise the river?