Question for counters

I have been considering learning the count systems available on bj21.com, but there was a couple things I was curious about.

For one, I know that online blackjack is getting big. Is it possible to run a count on the online decks or are they shuffled after every hand? Have any of you succesfully done this, and if so, have you been banned from these sites for having a +EV game (which should tell them you are counting)

I also read some of the articles about ROR and deviation and such, but they were written in highly technical terms and I did not understand the bottom line of some of what they were saying. What would the bankroll requirements be for running a say 5-50 dollar spread? When I say requirements, I mean an amount of money that theoretically would not be extinguished while using a counting method with perfect strategy. Does this make sense? One thing in one of the articles that stuck out in my mind was how a writer (mathprof I think) showed how that Blackjack has wild swings with deviation, but after a certain number of hands, the overall odds always surpass variance.

I am sorry if this sounds ignorant. I have tried to read as much as I could lately on the websites you all have mentioned, but I have not been able to find answers to these questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Steve

[SheetWise]

I have never seen a continuous shuffle machine (CSM) game that could be beat. I have played for over 30 years, and would never play 21 online. My reason is that 21 is different than poker. The "fair" nature of virtual games is basically based upon faith -- I don't have as much faith in the impartiality of the host casino when they are risking their own money.

[cardcounter0]

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Is it possible to run a count on the online decks or are they shuffled after every hand?

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They are shuffled after every hand (or penetration is so poor no advantage can be obtained).


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Have any of you succesfully done this, and if so, have you been banned from these sites for having a +EV game (which should tell them you are counting)

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I have been banned from several sites, but that is from bonus whoring, which is how you beat online BJ


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What would the bankroll requirements be for running a say 5-50 dollar spread? When I say requirements, I mean an amount of money that theoretically would not be extinguished while using a counting method with perfect strategy.

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100 BB would probably be a good place to start to keep risk low, although theoretically any finite bankroll no matter how big has some small chance of going broke.


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Blackjack has wild swings with deviation, but after a certain number of hands, the overall odds always surpass variance.

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I think you are talking about NO which usually falls in the 50,000 hand range or more. Which gives you some idea of how wide the variance can be at times.

Thanks for the help man.

If you don't mind me asking, do you play Blackjack professionally or recreationally?
The reason I asked about playing online is because it seems like it would be extremely difficult to pull off the act in a casino, and that frequenting any casino while employing counting tactics would inevitebly get noticed at some point. Is this true, or have you been a regular at any casino(s) without being noticed like this?

Again, thanks for the straightforward answers.

Steve

[PokerCat69]

Bankroll should be 100X Max bet to be really safe, very low end would by 50X max bet.

Don't count online BJ, they shuffle every hand. You can however beat online BJ if your clearing a bonus. I've done this a couple times and came ahead with a profit.

[charlie_t_jr]

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The reason I asked about playing online is because it seems like it would be extremely difficult to pull off the act in a casino, and that frequenting any casino while employing counting tactics would inevitebly get noticed at some point.

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You mentioned a $5-$50 spread. At this level don't worry much with an "act", except to practice so you can keep count and be natural at the table. And don't even consider changing your play to "throw off" the pit...you'll be giving up too much at this level.

With a $50 top bet you won't have to worry with "heat". Just keep your sessions short(around an hour).

[cassette]

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Is it possible to run a count on the online decks or are they shuffled after every hand?

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They are shuffled after every hand (or penetration is so poor no advantage can be obtained).


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This is incorrect. Webcam Live Dealer games exist with sufficient penetration. The real problem is finding a game with a high enough table max to make it worthwhile.

If I had 100k I might give it a shot.

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Is it possible to run a count on the online decks or are they shuffled after every hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are shuffled after every hand (or penetration is so poor no advantage can be obtained).


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This is incorrect. Webcam Live Dealer games exist with sufficient penetration. The real problem is finding a game with a high enough table max to make it worthwhile.

If I had 100k I might give it a shot.

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Interesting, if one could count BJ online "if" the deck(s) were not shuffled until late in the deck then it would be a go. I'm sure there is software that will even do the counting for you but never looked into it. Otherwise BJ online is really not worth it.

[charlie_t_jr]

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This is incorrect. Webcam Live Dealer games exist with sufficient penetration. The real problem is finding a game with a high enough table max to make it worthwhile.

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From their website:

"2.4 How many decks of cards do you use in your games?
In Blackjack and Baccarat we use 8 decks, and 4 decks are used for playing; once the 4 decks are exhausted, the entire 8 decks (the “shoe”) is shuffled.

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2.5 When do you shuffle?
For all card games, the cards are shuffled when the yellow 'shuffle marker' card is dealt, which is generally after 4 of the 8 decks have been dealt.

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2.6 What are my betting limits?
Table limits are adjusted based on peak times and table availability. Generally, table limits for all games is $2 - $250."



50% of 8 decks would not be considered "sufficient penetration". But the ability to spread from a low bet of $2 to $250 is interesting...got to be some sort of catch. Surely they wouldn't let you spread at will.

Also, I wonder if you are playing at a solitary table or with other players? If you had the ability to sit out and wait for a high count would give you an advantage. Somebody would have to run the frequencies of high counts in such a game to see if it would be worth the time to sit around and wait.

[cassette]

What are you talking about? I wasn't refering to a specific casino, but rather a gimmick that several casinos have that use Webcams for their Live Dealer games. Several of these casinos provide games with sufficient penetration.