TT, early in Tilt $11

[Blindcurve]

I am in one of those periods where the most basic elements of play have me stymied.

Full Tilt $11, blinds are 20/40, I have 840 ish in chips in MP2.

UTG+1 limps, EP1 limps, couple folds, I raise to 200. Folded around to the EP1 who calls with about 800 behind.

Pot is now 500.

Flop is rainbow Q 8 7.

Villain checks. Hero ?

I don't feel like I can bet say, 1/2 the pot and not commit myself to the rest. If I check behind, what do I do when Villain bets the turn. I sort of feel like I can't call a bet and I can't reasonably bet less than all-in.

On another note, how's the preflop? Seems like there are several ways to play this hand? What's standard?

I know this is basic, basic, fundamental stuff. For some reason I'm struggling with my loose/tight scale, my passive/aggro scale, timing. I feel like I'm zigging when I should be zagging and I don't really know how to get my poker sense back. So I figure I'll just post hands.

Flame is a great motivator, so

FOITNOF,

-D.

[Melchiades]

Do like Rizen, push the turn and catch a T on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Blindcurve]

My new luckbox is on layaway at Walmart. This one is shot out. With that in mind, any comments?

As I think about this, I think pushing preflop avoids 95% of the problems here. I think my stack size is such that I either have to limp and play for set value or move in because I can't play a flop with overcards after a raise- I have no room to bet.

I don't know that this is as simple a spot as you're saying it is. Preflop, pushing is an option as is limping. I think it may be pushing > raising > calling. The argument for pushing is 1) you're likely ahead and could get a lot of strange calls and 2) flop is hard to play with TT and this stack size, as this hand shows.

On the flop, I think your hand's still too good to fold, there are scare cards that can fall on the turn, and the pot's ~2/3 of your stack, so I again push.

Disclaimer: I'm push happy.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know that this is as simple a spot as you're saying it is. Preflop, pushing is an option as is limping. I think it may be pushing > raising > calling. The argument for pushing is 1) you're likely ahead and could get a lot of strange calls and 2) flop is hard to play with TT and this stack size, as this hand shows.

On the flop, I think your hand's still too good to fold, there are scare cards that can fall on the turn, and the pot's ~2/3 of your stack, so I again push.

Disclaimer: I'm push happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate PF push, but aggreed OTF

[PFrese]

I think pushing preflop is a bad play here. YOu still have 20 BBs and your M is 14. No need to get push happy. TT is a tough hand to play post flop unless you hit a set, especially against an EP caller. BUT, with all of that said, I think the right flop play here is a push. If he has a Queen, well, you still have two outs! if not, then he folds and you take the pot. MOST of the time, he will not have the queen and you are good. If it was an Ace or a King, I might continuation bet and fold to a raise.


Also, you may get lucky and have him call you with A8, or A7. I see that all the time at these levels.

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing preflop is a bad play here. YOu still have 20 BBs and your M is 14. No need to get push happy. TT is a tough hand to play post flop unless you hit a set, especially against an EP caller. BUT, with all of that said, I think the right flop play here is a push. If he has a Queen, well, you still have two outs! if not, then he folds and you take the pot. MOST of the time, he will not have the queen and you are good. If it was an Ace or a King, I might continuation bet and fold to a raise.


Also, you may get lucky and have him call you with A8, or A7. I see that all the time at these levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

M and number of BBs stop mattering once peopl limp/raise in front of you. You could argue that since there are 2 limpers here, he's got an M of like 5 or so, which is about push territory.

[nightlyraver]

I play these tourneys all the time, so here are some considerations to know:

1) Early on there is much limping with what I would consider trash from EP (like KJ or A9).

2) When being offered over 2:1, many limpers will simply call your raise out of principal ("you're not raising ME off MY hand...").

3) This flop very likely missed your opponent.

4) Most players are not tricky enough to check-raise without a monster.

5) Villian does not have a monster.

FWIW, you probably can get away from the hand without committing yourself to the pot. One option is to bet another 200 and shut down if you're called. It is possible to make a comeback, but not that fun. Another option is the check behind and hope for a free showdown, but I think this is the worst option of all. You can also just push right now. If he has a Q, so be it. If not, you either win a very reasonble pot or probably double through if he ddecides to call with something like A8. Since I consider my hand too good to fold, but too vulnerable, I'm usually going with the third option. The first option I may use if I have a good read on my man and it's late in the tourney and almost everyone has a relatively short stack.

[Maalox149]

I disagree with a push on the flop, but for somewhat different reasons. I dont like to put myself in a spot where im going to be 50/50 at early in these tournaments, as the only hands that would call a push are likely to have you dominated or be about even money to bust you. Even a whacko who calls with QJ or something like that is pretty close to even money, after the dead money from limpers/blinds etc is factored in. I would make a standard raise, and push on the flop if it isnt threatening ie AKx.

In this particular case, you're in a tough spot to be sure, but i think a push on the flop is probably the best play. There's a nice pot just kind of lying out there, and you've represented a hand, so take it.

this is an instapush imo. If he has a queen you lose, so what. youre down to 640, if you check then push. if you push so many hands youre beating would call. ace8 and most pps. Him having a queen is pretty unlikely.