J8s from the button

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello Jay.

I dont think that your flop call was correct. Thats because although you thought that the very loose MP player may have given you implied odds, there was also another caller to consider. You just werent receiving good enough odds to call for your gut-shot in this instance IMHO.

Also, I disagree with the turn bet. You are right that if all the remaining players called, that you would have been receiving sufficient odds to improve to probably the best hand.

However, I think that it was unlikely that all 4 of your remaining opponents would call your bet. Also, it was unlikely that your bet would fold all of those players either.

That meant that it was unlikely that you would get the value which you were hoping for from your bet, and I think thats why checking and taking the free card on the turn would have been better.

By the way, I think that you posted an interesting hand for analysis. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I was hoping it would be, because I think my play was very arguable both ways [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] To be perfectly honest, I lean towards the "bad" argument, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate. I'm trying to get a handle on marginal hands like this one.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I thought we generally bet when we have an equity edge with the assumption that we will be called? If we assume people are folding when we bet, then we can't really discuss equity edges as precisely as we do. If we take people's folds into account, it becomes a much more difficult problem deciding when to value bet draws and exploit equity edges. Let me know if I've been thinking about this all wrong, because it could easily be something that's been costing me money.