God and logic

[Dov]

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Hello. For some reason I was led to this forum tonight (I normally post on other 2+2 forums, and have never visited SMP). I read a couple of the posts where smart atheists who should know better like renowned poker author David Sklansky debated their views on God.

As a Christian, I'd like to add a few of my own misconceptions about God and point out a few of the ways in which fallacies will hopefully get some of you thinking in a direction of seeing things my way , (which is what I want) instead of running around in logical circles because I still have no way to combat reason and rationality, at the end of the day.

There is only one [Insert Deity Here] , and he has certain characteristics. If you are talking about a [Insert Same Deity Here] that does not have these characteristics, you are not talking about [Insert Same Deity Here] ; you're just talking about some made-up [Insert Other Thing Here] , and are falsely labeling him as [Insert Initial Deity Here] . [Initial Deity] is all-knowing, all-powerful, holy, and just, among other things because there is no other possible way to explain [Deity] which does not destroy this beautiful concept which I so firmly believe to be true. . If you say things like

"...we did statistical studies regarding metaphysical claims and understood how physics pretty much proves that everything that happens is not interefered with by non natural forces," -- David Sklansky

you aren't talking about God. God created physics and all science for that matter. It'd be like the church telling Galileo that there is no way he can be correct because God says otherwise. We all know how that one turned out don't we?

I believe in a God who revealed Himself to me in an absolute way, and I believe that the Bible is God-breathed and absolutely true, in the same way that you believe 2+2=4 is an absolute truth. (I don't believe in Lorentz Transformations, BTW)

I cannot by my own power, nor do I have the right to, convince you of any of this on my own because of a lack of genuine convincing evidence, which, if I could I would fabricate, but you're too smart for that. . However, God can, and will, if you seek Him and the only way to seek Him is to blindly believe. Otherwise you will be caught in the impossible trap of rational thought and find yourself at a loss to explain your position to others who have not yet been brainwashed without resorting to ridiculous analogies.

I know a lot of you have questions about the origins of God and you feel that because no one can get their stories straight , He cannot be real to you. But remember, just because you don't know the answer to something, doens't mean an answer does not exist. In fact, I know the answer, and here it is: there is ONE ANSWER, and only one answer to questions such as "How did the universe and humans come about?" I can't explain it very well, so you'll have to take my word for it.

No matter what you believe, or don't believe, logically, there has to be one absolutely true answer, whether you know, don't know, care, or don't care. But I can't prove it logically. You just have to believe it.

Just because you don't see any evidence does not mean you are incorrect in your view. Many intelligent people have figured out that they had been fooled into thinking one thing when something else is true.

Here is a great circular logic argument with no basis in reality for you:

The only thing that cannot be disputed is absolute truth, and anything that contradicts it cannot be true. If you are not 100% sure about your view, you should seek the truth. If you think it is impossible to be 100% sure about anything, ask yourself how, then, is it possible to be sure of your uncertainty?

Whenever you ask questions about God, ask yourself this: Are you asking earnestly, willing to suspend all critical analysis, to seek the truth? If so, you will be led towards the truth. If you are not brainwashed enough , and asking rhetorical questions of those of us who are brainwashed trying to prove your own point, you will not benefit yourself in any way, other than to entertain yourself with the idea that otherwise intelligent people can be taught to make very basic mistakes.

If all your questions about God were answered articulately, accurately, consistently, clearly, and convincingly with enough evidence to demonstrate significant probability of being true, , would you be able to believe in God?

If your answer is "no" then your questions are more like statements of your own faith than honest questions about God.

Lastly, before I fall asleep, I would like to say that when you find the many flaws in my reasoning (which is inevitable since I simply believe blindly and without any understanding of your position ), it does not, in any way, disprove or prove the existence or identity of God.

I along with any other Christian on this board am fallable and make mistakes all the time so don't point them out to me because I already know about them and don't care. Just believe that what I say is true and stop questioning it because I know with 100% certainty, even though I admit that I make mistakes.

My hope is that I may point you in the right direction to seek for yourself what I have obtained through irresistable divine revelation (well what other explanation can there be?) , which as every fallible person knows is not reproducible by drugs or other techniques. We have eliminated all other possible causes of these experiences through conclusive, reproducible studies which concluded that these experiences are, in fact, caused by God.

Coming to Christ may seem like a paradox--whether or not you will find God has been known for eternity (even before the birth of Christ, himself) , but since you do not know, you must seek.

Read the Gospel (This is, historically speaking, our best initial brainwashing technique) and ask God to give you an understanding of Him and His plan for your eternal salvation. Do not close your mind to the truth though it may be uncomfortable. (No one said brainwashing was always easy)

Seek, and you will find. It usually works in the end, though.

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FYP

[Peter666]

The Galileo comment is false. He was not put under house arrest for his scientific work. He was put under house arrest for formenting rebellion in the Papal States during a critical time. His books insulted the current Pope and were very scandalous. He was allowed to continue his research and given the provisions to do so. And his "jail" was a rather nice villa.

To say Galileo was persecuted by the Church is a misnomer and just another bit of really bad Protestant inspired mishistory.

[Dov]

I got this from a physics textbook which I had as an ebook.

I just upgraded my HDD, though, and it looks like the physics folder was a casualty.

If I find it again, I'll give you the reference. I have a backup somewhere...

[chezlaw]

interesting Galileo-catholic link

[PairTheBoard]

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interesting Galileo-catholic link

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"tragic mutual incomprehension"

hmmm. Not unlike some of the dialogue around here.

PairTheBoard

[Peter666]

"The Victorian biologist Thomas Henry Huxley, who had no brief for Catholicism, once examined the case and concluded that "the Church had the best of it."

That's a funny line. We should replace "The Victorian biologist Thomas Henry Huxley" with "the acclaimed writer/gambler/thinker David Sklansky"