ATs in SB

[ QUOTE ]
With no read at all, I think this is a fold. It's a rare player who would come out raising this turn with just a pair after cold calling the flop. He's got 2 pair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we fold now then the observant boys are gonna take note and test you with turn raises later on. With no reads who's to say he's not a LAG and you're winning easily so far. While I agree that when I call I expect to be shown the winning hand, I think you'll be shown a draw or some crap enough times to make it worth calling.

[AaronS]

If we call the turn here, what's our plan on the river? Check/call? Check/fold?

I'm sucking it up and check calling

[crazygoose]

You are getting 10:1 on that turn. I don't want to do the math but I think you are drawing dead enough here to fold without a better read.

[krimson]

I think pre-flop is okay, but I would be extremely cautious if you catch the ace. There is a reasonable chance that the CO has a good hand since he raised behind a limper. Someone mentioned 3-betting out of the sb, but I think that's a bit overkill. We have a decent mutli-way hand so I would just call and invite the BB to come along too.

The rest of the hand is pretty standard imo. Not much you can do but call down after the turn raise without any reads.

[TheHammer24]

I don't find a fold here. I would like a read on LP raiser but anything over 7% pfr I think this is a pretty safe call/3-bet especially if the limper is bad and the raiser knows it.

Folding the tunr is super weak tight. He could have KT, JT, a lot of hands here if he's overagressive and too loose. The calling the flop cold and raising the turn is kind of scary though if he is a thinking player.

Moral of the story: WE NEED READS!

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 10:1 on that turn. I don't want to do the math but I think you are drawing dead enough here to fold without a better read.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are thinking about this hand backwards.

Don't think about this as: we need a read to justify calling down. We have TPTK on a fairly innocuous board. We are getting like 11-2 on a calldown here, which means we need to have the best hand at showdown less than 20% of the time here to merit calling down.

Realize that the risky play here is folding , not calling down. The 11 BB we potential forfeit by laying down a strong hand is more substantial than the 2 BB we risk by going to showdown. In situations where there really aren't that many hands which are beating us, and the pot is reasonably big, the burden of proof (for me, at least) lies on the fold side, not the call side. It's a calldown for me until proven otherwise.

It's one of those poker cliches that "good players look for reasons to fold." This is true to a great degree, particularly on pre-flop play and when drawing and so forth (and in NL hold'em). But this idea can be taken too far. In a live game with a very strong read, there are plenty of times all fold this. But against an unknown online or against anyone who's shown any amount of trickiness, I'm calling down here.