Tainted outs - to call on turn? (3/6)

[giant sand]

Crypto site $3-$6 4-handed.

No reads. On balance I think I should let this go on the turn. I've been defending my blind with hands like the following, but I guess some might let this go pre-flop.

Hero is in BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] MP posts SB of $3

MP 1 checks, button folds, SB raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop (3 players, 6SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, hero calls, MP 1 calls

Turn (3 players, 6.5BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 raises, SB calls, Hero calls

River (3 players, 10.5BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero checks, MP 1 checks

I fold this easily PF with no reads. MP1 will likely call the raise, and J8o is not something I want to be playing OOP.

Since you made it to the flop, I'd raise SB's bet and see if you get played back at. If not, bet the turn and hope for a free showdown.

[milesdyson]

pot size is messed up. on the turn it's only 4.5 big bets, so you're only getting 5.5:1 to call (not closing the action) with ~6 outs.

i probably fold this preflop due to there being a higher likelihood of this going 3-way to the flop.

i also do not like flat calling the flop - i feel this is raise or fold with MP1 yet to act and SB with a large range.

[admiralfluff]

[ QUOTE ]
pot size is messed up. on the turn it's only 4.5 big bets, so you're only getting 5.5:1 to call (not closing the action) with ~6 outs.

i probably fold this preflop due to there being a higher likelihood of this going 3-way to the flop.

i also do not like flat calling the flop - i feel this is raise or fold with MP1 yet to act and SB with a large range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of this, and would raise the flop.

[POKhER]

5.5:1 with less than 6outs? Fold.

[giant sand]

[ QUOTE ]
5.5:1 with less than 6outs? Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay i messed up the hand summary. I'm getting 5.5-1 on the turn, but I also have as many as 9 outs (2 8s, 3 Jacks and 4 9s) or as few as 3 outs (9s minus 9 of diamonds)

[POKhER]

I dont think you have the outs, and you dont have the pot size to go with them so its a fold.
By the way, cut the hand down to the street your unsure of.

i.e.
[ QUOTE ]

Hero is in BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] MP posts SB of $3

MP 1 checks, button folds, SB raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop (3 players, 6SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, hero calls, MP 1 calls

Turn (3 players, 6.5BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, Hero....

[/ QUOTE ]

[milesdyson]

you can have as few as 0 outs here...

[giant sand]

If we're being really pedantic, I need 7 outs to justify calling on the turn, given that there's a potential flush draw, and there's a possibility one or both of my opponents either have a Jack or an 8, I know I'm pretty unlikely to have 9 outs.

That said, I think it's a bit too simplistic to simply state 'you don't have enough outs here'. Given that we only have a few seconds to decide at the time of the hand, this was close between a bet and a fold - although I admit folding is likely to be the best option.