|
|
#21
11-23-2005, 03:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: interesting hand
Short stacks will push with an incredibly wide range of hands on draw heavy flops. All we know is that a donkey pushed and got called by a reasonable Villain. I'm happy with my hand given the circumstances.
|
|
#22
11-23-2005, 03:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Basically, the short stack can be pushing with anything. When Villain 2 cold calls, I see no reason to assume that you're behind. A set two pair is certainly possible, but so is any T. I don't see myself folding given this action. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I'm suprised. Action indicates someone has a big hand. I mean thats poker 101. The only thing that makes this a possbile push is very specific reads and the fact that it's 50nl on party. Other than that this is a fold nearly 100% of the time. Take that to the bank mal... [/ QUOTE ] Disagree. Where is the action that indicates a strong hand? Short stack donkey goes all in, ok he has two cards. Unremarakable guy calls. Ok he has a draw or top pair. Every once in awhile he has a set and is "slowplaying". With two pair he probably raises to protect. I push here.
|
|
#23
11-23-2005, 03:57 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Basically, the short stack can be pushing with anything. When Villain 2 cold calls, I see no reason to assume that you're behind. A set two pair is certainly possible, but so is any T. I don't see myself folding given this action. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I'm suprised. Action indicates someone has a big hand. I mean thats poker 101. The only thing that makes this a possbile push is very specific reads and the fact that it's 50nl on party. Other than that this is a fold nearly 100% of the time. Take that to the bank mal... [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. You are forgetting that V2 probably also knows that V1 is a donkey. The hero understands that V1 is terrible, and that V2 knows that V1 is terrible, but the hero is not quite sure what V2 has that would not try and isolate V1. V2's range of hands would have to be Ax of spades or AT with possibly the ace of spades. Any other hand would likely try to isolate V1. [I might be mistaken, but I have never seen any set not move in with two players acting so strongly in front of him.] Now on to part II of the question. The hero reads V2 to having a range of hands that is behind QQ, so the hero moves all in. On to part II of the question: Does the hero want V2 to call with tptk? Does the hero want V2 to call with the nut flush draw? And, finally, can V2 actually fold?
|
|
#24
11-23-2005, 04:01 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Basically, the short stack can be pushing with anything. When Villain 2 cold calls, I see no reason to assume that you're behind. A set two pair is certainly possible, but so is any T. I don't see myself folding given this action. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I'm suprised. Action indicates someone has a big hand. I mean thats poker 101. The only thing that makes this a possbile push is very specific reads and the fact that it's 50nl on party. Other than that this is a fold nearly 100% of the time. Take that to the bank mal... [/ QUOTE ] Disagree. Where is the action that indicates a strong hand? Short stack donkey goes all in, ok he has two cards. Unremarakable guy calls. Ok he has a draw or top pair. Every once in awhile he has a set and is "slowplaying". With two pair he probably raises to protect. I push here. [/ QUOTE ] At 200nl+ would you agree that this is a fold? Here's the action: UTG Pre-flop raise = strength(hero) Hero POT size bets into 2 people OOP = strength(hero) Short stack pushes w made hand through any two with player left to act = possible strength Villian2 calls an all-in against a pre-flop raiser who is still to act(we know he has pusher beat) = nuts through top pair and draw. Great strength - moderate strength Like I said eariler, is it POSSIBLE that hero is ahead here? At 50nl on party, yes. Is this long term +EV? No. Unless hero has real specific read on villian2, like he is a HORRIBLE player and will call with all that action with top pair, then it's a fold.
|
|
#25
11-23-2005, 04:10 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
At 200nl+ would you agree that this is a fold? [/ QUOTE ] Interesting that you say this. Diablo posted a hand recently in mid hi that went something like this: UB $10/$20 blind NL game ( I think). Diablo raises UTG to ~ $85 with AA. 5 callers. Flop is Kxx with two of one suit I believe. Diablo is first to act and checks, hoping to check raise the field. MP1 who Diablo reads as solids bets the pot (~$400). MP3 moves all-in for another couple grand on-top. Action to Diablo.....
|
|
#26
11-23-2005, 04:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
Like I said eariler, is it POSSIBLE that hero is ahead here? At 50nl on party, yes. Is this long term +EV? No. Unless hero has real specific read on villian2, like he is a HORRIBLE player and will call with all that action with top pair, then it's a fold. [/ QUOTE ] Edit: nm this 6max also. But I can't remember getting sand bagged in this spot ever. This is when 2nd villain is unremarkable-they tend to call too much with unremarkable hands.
|
|
#27
11-23-2005, 04:14 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
I play 6max, so that changes things some. But I can't remember getting sand bagged in this spot ever. This is when 2nd villain is unremarkable-they tend to call too much with unremarkable hands. [/ QUOTE ] Hero's thinking exactly.
|
|
#28
11-23-2005, 04:15 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] At 200nl+ would you agree that this is a fold? [/ QUOTE ] Interesting that you say this. Diablo posted a hand recently in mid hi that went something like this: UB $10/$20 blind NL game ( I think). Diablo raises UTG to ~ $85 with AA. 5 callers. Flop is Kxx with two of one suit I believe. Diablo is first to act and checks, hoping to check raise the field. MP1 who Diablo reads as solids bets the pot (~$400). MP3 moves all-in for another couple grand on-top. Action to Diablo..... [/ QUOTE ] Completely different. If you don't see why, then it will have to wait for another day because I'm going to sleep. What are results btw? Not that I'm particularly results oriented here, but it's still interesting.
|
|
#29
11-23-2005, 04:16 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
Why not? If It was all going in on flop, might as well push it on turn too and make him incorrect when he is drawing and missing. Do you mean you c/f or c/c with the line I suggest?
|
|
#30
11-23-2005, 04:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] At 200nl+ would you agree that this is a fold? [/ QUOTE ] Interesting that you say this. Diablo posted a hand recently in mid hi that went something like this: UB $10/$20 blind NL game ( I think). Diablo raises UTG to ~ $85 with AA. 5 callers. Flop is Kxx with two of one suit I believe. Diablo is first to act and checks, hoping to check raise the field. MP1 who Diablo reads as solids bets the pot (~$400). MP3 moves all-in for another couple grand on-top. Action to Diablo..... [/ QUOTE ] Completely different. If you don't see why, then it will have to wait for another day because I'm going to sleep. [/ QUOTE ] I think the situation is fairly similair. The donkey who made the move in the $50nl game with the short stack was no more of a donkey than the one who went all-in with K7 against the solid player and Diablo in the significantly higher stakes game. Diablo's mistake (which KKF called him out on) was to not read the all-in raise as having come from a donkey. If Diablo had known that, then he would have not folded his hand. The situation applies here as well. Disregarding the donkey in the hand, can the hero move all-in agianst the more solid player? In my example, the situation is a lot tougher b/c QQ is far more vulnerable than AA.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
