AKo turn decision - Page 2

JoshuaD · #11 06-26-2005, 05:33 PM

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Try and apply this to your game in general with overcards against a large field, not just this one hand.

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Well, in general, it's right to check behind on the turn when your overcards whiffed and you're still up against a field of 3. But the peculiaralites of this hand makes it so betting is better, IMO.

I agree that we need to stop churning out cookie cutter answers. It's too easy to always check behind these turns where your overcards missed on the flop and turn with 3 opponents. But as I examine the exact particulars of this hand, I'm finding that betting has alot more merit than usual. When you put out one word "check" posts, you're stifling discussion. At least throw one line of explaination.

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I would rather analyze 1 hand really well once a day than just state what my action would be in 200 hands.

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Why not do both? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

toss · #12 06-26-2005, 05:36 PM

Its true that villains will often be on draw or have wacky overcards, but I just don't think all three of them will not have any pair. I guess I can be persuaded that betting is good here.

JoshuaD · #13 06-26-2005, 05:53 PM

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Its true that villains will often be on draw or have wacky overcards, but I just don't think all three of them will not have any pair. I guess I can be persuaded that betting is good here.

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I think it's likely that at least one guy has a pair, but I also think it's likely that he'll fold it to a turn bet a good portion of the time. This does depend alot on who the player is and what pair he's holding, but I think all in all you fold a pair here pretty often on the turn.

That's not the only motivation for betting, however. We're looking at a list of reasons: Folding a pair, protection/value from overcards and flush draws, the possibility of seeing a free showdown, and most importantly, the fact that we can fold to a check raise from anyone.

I haven't explained that yet in this thread -- If we get check-raised we can be very, very sure that our 6 outs are no good. I don't think a single pair will check-raise this turn, ever.

KDawgCometh · #14 06-26-2005, 06:06 PM

I really do like a bet here. we have position and a lot of draws on the board. By betting if we can get this HU with someone who is on a flush or a nut straight draw that misses, we can take this pot down UI. I do think a bet will clear the field a bit as players at party seem to like to peel with almost anything. this board is also extremely scary for someone who has even middle pair. If we can fold out any hands like this, or a hand that could spike a pair on the river, we haved now benefitted from the bet. a bet can also possibly clean up an ace out as it isn't inconcieveable that someone is holding a hand like A3 or A6.

toss · #15 06-26-2005, 06:08 PM

Having them fold a pair by betting the turn is good enough reason for me. I like betting the turn then.

JoshuaD · #16 06-26-2005, 06:15 PM

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Having them fold a pair by betting the turn is good enough reason for me. I like betting the turn then.

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Not to be cross, but if we couldn't fold to a check-raise, I think betting would be wrong. I think that's a very, very important factor here.

chesspain · #17 06-26-2005, 06:26 PM

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...betting will not win the pot.

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It might fold a better hand..any pair might be folding on this scary board.

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Slowly step away from the bong. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

JoshuaD · #18 06-26-2005, 06:30 PM

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...betting will not win the pot.

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It might fold a better hand..any pair might be folding on this scary board.

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Slowly step away from the bong. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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I really think everyone on these boards underestimates how often people DO fold pairs here. I play my overcards aggressively and I get folds, not all those folds are cards that didn't connect, there are just too many of them. Sometimes fish fold their pairs, and they do it particularly when they percieve that even if they improve they won't win.

Nick C · #19 06-26-2005, 06:37 PM

I like checking behind on the turn, with the plan of folding to a river bet unimproved.

Yeah, the board's scary, but it's not as if Hero's opponents will put him on a straight. They'll be thinking overcards or overpair.

If someone folds a pair, he'll be doing so because he's worried someone else just made a straight. And I don't think he'll let this concern him too greatly until someone checkraises. And we have to fold to one of those anyway.

Emmitt2222 · #20 06-26-2005, 07:23 PM

So just to clarify, you along with the many others who say bet are doing so for folding equity and not because we have the best hand most often? Or you figure that you are good enough here to value bet? I'm guessing you want to win the pot right there so you like to have folding equity but with people this loose passive I dont think we have enough here to bet. I think that we may even have an opportunity for a free showdown even if we dont bet the turn against passive people.