How many barrels do you fire into a pot with missed AK?

[BB_Specials]

FullTiltPoker Game #160245000: $20 + $2 Tournament (956696), Table 10 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:52:54 ET - 2005/07/20
Seat 1: bronze (2,760)
Seat 2: DBLfister (2,340)
Seat 3: HunterLee (5,140)
Seat 4: jaminator24 (3,435)
Seat 5: cc1319 (5,030)
Seat 6: LesterMurphy1 (4,565)
Seat 7: kiddav (2,190)
Seat 8: RatPackCpt (935)

Seat 9: hero (3,245)

kiddav posts the small blind of 50
RatPackCpt posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #6

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero[A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
Hero raises to 350
bronze folds
DBLfister calls 350
HunterLee folds
kiddav: easy Hunter, point made dont rub it in
jaminator24 has 15 seconds left to act
jaminator24 folds
cc1319 calls 350
HunterLee: [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
LesterMurphy1 has 15 seconds left to act
LesterMurphy1 folds
kiddav folds
RatPackCpt folds
*** FLOP *** [6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
Hero bets 500
DBLfister folds
cc1319 calls 500
*** TURN *** [2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

Hero?


Do I fire again into a missed AK or should I just check/fold here? Maybe a 1/2 pot and fold to a raise?

[James Lang]

I fire a continuation bet on the flop then check/fold the turn

[Laomedon]

Flop call = Q a very high percentage of the time. Against suspect opposition you will not be able to induce a fold by firing again on the turn.

Check/Fold the turn in this spot.

[DJ Sensei]

I typically will fire another barrel on the turn IF:

-villain is very likely on a draw or has a weak pair that he'll toss after another bet
-I have many drawing outs
-I have position

In this case:
-KJ or J9 are the only drawing hands that villain could have, but AQ, AT, KQ, KT, QQ, TT and 66 are way ahead of you. You might be able to get a villain off AT or KT with another bet, but its not worth tossing a lot of chips in for.
-The only clean draw you have here is J for the nut straight.
-You're OOP

I think this situation calls for a check-fold (and hope for a free A, K, or J river)

[Rduke55]

Here I probably wouldn't. Two opponents saw the flop and two broadway cards came.

[Brad F.]

Good thread, as this exact situation seems to be the one that is dwindling my stack constantly.

I NEED to start checking the turn in these types of situations. It really should be that you have a specific read on your opponent to fire another one, and that's hard to do here.

Continuation bets work sometimes I guess, but lately it seems as if they are killing me. But what I noticed lately is that if I have AA in that situation, I check the flop to induce a bet and I slowplay. Continuation bets I think are only effective if you play AK the same way on a flop of A-7-5 as you would a flop of 6-Q-T.

Or is this statement of mine incorrect? I have lost so many chips and dollars in cash games lately with A-K's that miss flops.

Brad

[allenciox]

Go back and reread HOH2... you fire continuation bets into pots that are likely to have missed your opponents. This is a HORRIBLE flop for making a continuation bet. Think about all the hands that your opponents might be playing that hit this flop --- AQ,KQ,KJ,QJ,QT,J9,JT,98, (double belly buster)... almost anything they would be playing is better than your hand in this situation. Plus you have two opponents, not one. I wouldn't do a continuation bet on the flop, much less on the turn... If you always make a continuation bet after raising when you miss the flop, you will become easy to read.... don't even THINK about firing a second barrel here.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
you fire continuation bets into pots that are likely to have missed your opponents. This is a HORRIBLE flop for making a continuation bet. Think about all the hands that your opponents might be playing that hit this flop --- AQ,KQ,KJ,QJ,QT,J9,JT,98, (double belly buster)... almost anything they would be playing is better than your hand in this situation. Plus you have two opponents, not one. I wouldn't do a continuation bet on the flop, much less on the turn... If you always make a continuation bet after raising when you miss the flop, you will become easy to read....

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are betting with AQ here, you should bet with AK too. The initial continuation bet is still +EV, even against two opponenets.

[ QUOTE ]
don't even THINK about firing a second barrel here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Regards,
Woodguy

[allenciox]

IF you're opponents are weak-tight and assume you have KQ or AQ when you bet here, I would agree with you... but if they are intelligent opponents, they won't think that. If I had a JT here against a player that makes continuation bets, I call here... that's why you want to lead out if you have AQ because you pick up calls you wouldn't get if you weren't known as an aggressive player.

An intelligent player would know that when you lead out you might have AK,AQ,AJ,AT... and would respond to that appropriately.

[TheDrone]

[ QUOTE ]
Continuation bets work sometimes I guess, but lately it seems as if they are killing me. But what I noticed lately is that if I have AA in that situation, I check the flop to induce a bet and I slowplay. Continuation bets I think are only effective if you play AK the same way on a flop of A-7-5 as you would a flop of 6-Q-T.

[/ QUOTE ]

Continuation bets are a necessary weapon in any MTTer's arsenal, but like any weapon you can shoot yourself in the foot if wielded poorly. They are more likely to succeed if:
(1) The flop is heads up.
(2) The flop is unlikely to have hit your opponent(s).
(3) Villain does not have a big stack
(4) You have a read on villain as tight post-flop. Calling stations are bad here.
(5) You make similar bets (both in size and frequency) whether you hit the flop or miss.
(6) Bubble time.

I'm sure there are more situations, but that's just off the top of my head.