2-4 decision

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I observed the following situation occur recently. I'm so darn nosy that anytime I hear "floor!" I have to poke my nose in and look to see what's the deal, and what decision winds up being made.

Here's the setup:

2-4 game. Tourist city. Alcohol involved in "slightly" higher than minimal quantities.

"FLOOR"

It's the river. Board something like 44Q67 no flush possible.

Dealer tells floor what happened:

First guy bet (he's quite clearly an inexperienced tourist). Second guy called. First guy did not see call, or the other guy's cards. He thought everyone folded, so he tossed his hand in face down. But everyone didn't fold. Second guy had actually called. After second guy called, and first guy tossed hand in face down, dealer took first guy's cards and put them on top of the muck.

What the floor sees: First guy has very obviously fanned out $4 in chips. Second guy has a less than obvious semi-splashed-the-pot $4 call, and judging from what I saw, it was quite likely his card may have been concealed (it's very common for low limit players to conceal their cards, they don't know any better). First guy says he thought everyone folded, and he didn't want to show. Second guy says he called. First guy says he had a full house and would never have folded. Second guy starts getting irate and saying "he folded." Second guy shows his cards, having AKo for no pair.

What's the floor to do?

There are two basic principles at work here, and they conflict somewhat. First off, there's only one player with a live hand. Second, it was obvious that the first guy did not mean to fold, and had acted on incorrect information, so it's a matter of "clear intent."

In addition, I feel it was clearly a dealer error to take the bettor's cards so quickly in this situation, since it was pretty obvious the bettor did not realize he had been called. Action is not always binding if it's made on incorrect information. Dealers also should not be too jumpy when it comes to drunken 2-4 tourists.

Now typically, if the floor comes over to a table and there's only one guy with a live hand, and the other is properly mucked and gone, the decision will almost always be to push the pot to the guy with the live hand. Tough luck, protect your hand already. However, there are some situations where a hand can be retrieved from the muck.

So the questions are...

1. Should the first guy be penalized for his actions, even tho he obviously wasn't clear about the fact he'd been called?

2. Is this a case of "your hand is dead, too bad" ??

3. Should the fact that player one is an obviously inexperienced tourist be taken into consideration?

4. Who gets the pot?

More to follow

al