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#11
11-28-2005, 04:18 PM
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Re: QQ Hand
Boris obviously the standard play for those who post in high stakes is to raise this one preflop, so until you address that point I'm not sure how we can reply. If I did limp preflop I would certainly checkraise the flop, or bet the flop hoping to get raised. I understand why you might want to wait until a later street to raise, but there are too many people in this hand. Two small bets is worth just as much as one big one.
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#12
11-28-2005, 04:23 PM
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my thoughts
it was him with the QQ already.
anyway what i said was preflop obviously we raise most of the time but calling sometimes is okay. remember, it's the play sklansky likes, let's not go into why it's still better to raise, bottom line is calling can have it's merit. flop is clearly a disaster but boris had his reasons. for me the play from the sb into such a large field on such a drawless board is bet in hopes of being able to 3 bet. save the c/r for when you have a gutshot heavy board and want to get those gutter balls out. after you bet if someone else 3 bets for you flat call so you can c/r that guy on the turn is the play. anyway bet-3 bet is significantly better than c/r here imo because of the texture of this board: i.e. it's super safe and good for QQ, plus the pot is too small you need to add some beef to it and that's more important than trying to clear out the field. plus remember they cant read your hand, you flat called preflop. so a pair of Js will give you too much action. given the flop smooth call, on the turn the play is to donk bet and hope someone raises so you can 3 bet. hope this helps. oh one more thing: 40-80 is NOT high stakes lol, who decided that? HS should be 80 and up.
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#14
11-28-2005, 04:27 PM
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Re: QQ Hand
I didn't raise pre-flop because I felt it may severely diminish any chance of check-raising on later streets. No doubt I gave up beaucoup equity by this decision. But I also felt I would win the pot more often by just calling pre-flop.
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#15
11-28-2005, 04:32 PM
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Re: QQ Hand
[ QUOTE ]
I felt it may severely diminish any chance of check-raising on later streets. [/ QUOTE ] which is why you check-called the flop as well. youre correct that the crux of this hand is the chance of clearing out players and increasing your chance of winning the pot vs. getting more money in the pot. because you didnt raise preflop (again not at all worthy of debate imo) your play of the hand shouldve leaned more heavily in favor of building a bigger pot on such a perfect board, the pot is not large enough to be so concerned with trying to c/r. bet-3 bet flop and/or turn was the play, especially because your hand was so well disguised
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#16
11-28-2005, 04:32 PM
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Re: QQ Hand
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't raise pre-flop because I felt it may severely diminish any chance of check-raising on later streets. No doubt I gave up beaucoup equity by this decision. But I also felt I would win the pot more often by just calling pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I understand this concept, but stuff like this has been discussed at depth on the forums and I'm pretty sure just about everyone agrees in the long run the extra small bets are worth more than winning the pot more often. The limp preflop, checkraise plan just leaves you with too small of a pot, and you end up getting totally killed on the later streets when someone flops a set, but not winning a lot of bets when your hand is good. If you put a lot of money in preflop, the times you lose to a set don't hurt as much. If you really want to checkraise, I think you could raise preflop and still get a checkraise in on the flop quite often. You check the flop with 6 guys to act one of them will decide to bet, especially because your hand will look like AK to them.
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#19
11-28-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: QQ Hand
On the river I like the check call much better than a bet because if you did just pull in front of two pair your opponent will still be betting. The way you played the hand early means he can't put you on an overpair.
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