55: Another Preflop QQ with a 3-bet and a 4-bet push/fold

AliasMrJones · #1 09-09-2005, 02:28 PM

Party 55. Hand 1 SB tripled up by pushing 66 after several limpers and getting a call from KJ and 55. But, he hasn't seen a flop since then. Button was 37/25, but hasn't shown down any hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter

AliasMrJones (t1155)
UTG+1 (t960)
MP1 (t780)
MP2 (t970)
CO (t1100)
Button (t985)
SB (t3030)
BB (t1020)

Preflop: AliasMrJones is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
AliasMrJones raises to t60, 3 folds, CO calls t60, Button raises to t225, SB raises to t1000, 1 fold, AliasMrJones...

Results later.

durron597 · #2 09-09-2005, 02:29 PM

I would push and expect to be an 80/20 or a 70/30 favorite most of the time.

#3 09-09-2005, 02:32 PM

I think I would push too.

But...if you don't lay down QQ preflop here, do you ever?

#4 09-09-2005, 02:47 PM

I changed my mind! I fold.

1. It's early and the blinds are miniscule
2. It's a 55 not an 11
3. You have 60 chips invested in this pot
4. Pot odds at the time of your decision are 1.4:1 and I'm assuming at best 2.4:1 (if CO folds and button calls)
5. A re-raise and re-re-raise of an UTG raise is just too much strength. Chances you are up against two weak hands (i.e. bluffs) is slim to none. And if they are that donkish, you will beat them later. "Best-case" scenario with 2 callers is QQ vs. JJ and AK which you would be just over 40% to win. It's just way too likely that one of these guys has AA or KK. And the button raise of 225 scares me more than the SB raise of 1000.

durron597 · #5 09-09-2005, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A re-raise and re-re-raise of an UTG raise is just too much strength. Chances you are up against two weak hands (i.e. bluffs) is slim to none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please re-read the OP's description of Villian.

#6 09-09-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A re-raise and re-re-raise of an UTG raise is just too much strength. Chances you are up against two weak hands (i.e. bluffs) is slim to none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please re-read the OP's description of Villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Pushing a weak-marginal hand against limpers is very different than pushing a weak-marginal hand against a raise and re-reraise
2. As i said, the button raise of 225 worries me more.
3. Please re-read all of my other reasons for folding.

barycentric · #7 09-09-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A re-raise and re-re-raise of an UTG raise is just too much strength. Chances you are up against two weak hands (i.e. bluffs) is slim to none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please re-read the OP's description of Villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless button is a known fish I'm laying this down. He's much more dangerous than SB.

bigt439 · #8 09-09-2005, 03:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party 55. Hand 1 SB tripled up by pushing 66 after several limpers and getting a call from KJ and 55. But, he hasn't seen a flop since then. Button was 37/25, but hasn't shown down any hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter

AliasMrJones (t1155)
UTG+1 (t960)
MP1 (t780)
MP2 (t970)
CO (t1100)
Button (t985)
SB (t3030)
BB (t1020)

Preflop: AliasMrJones is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
AliasMrJones raises to t60, 3 folds, CO calls t60, Button raises to t225, SB raises to t1000, 1 fold, AliasMrJones...

Results later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the button is the difference maker here. I think one of them has AA or KK alot of the time. And someone almost always has at least ak, so you're alot further behind than you would be ahead.

applejuicekid · #9 09-09-2005, 04:01 PM

I think this is a clear push. Both opponents have played in such a manner that it is clear they have little comprehension of early SNG concepts. With such opponents the range of hands they will do this extends way beyond AA, KK, and AK. I expect to see JJ and 99 here.

AliasMrJones · #10 09-09-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A re-raise and re-re-raise of an UTG raise is just too much strength. Chances you are up against two weak hands (i.e. bluffs) is slim to none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please re-read the OP's description of Villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless button is a known fish I'm laying this down. He's much more dangerous than SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think a non-donk button would re-raise here with JJ or AK with button position?