Open Limping? (I know preflop questions are gay)

[nomadtla]

I play at UB and the tables tend to be pretty tight and agressive. 30-35% see flop but +50% of hands raised preflop (though most are just one raise), and weak/tight after the flop (generally giving a lot of credit to the PFR). In these sort of situations would anyone think that open limping is not appropriate. I've been more or less playing by the SSH tight table chart but I still find that it feels uncomfortable to limp in EP (UTG-MP1) with some of the weaker hands that SSH sugests for EP because it will be raised behind me and shut out the pot now I have a mediocre hand OOP. I've started to flip a coin (raise/fold) for the higher end of these EP limps (KJs, ATs, AJo, KQo), and almost always drop the lower end (JTs, QTs, 88 77). Now someone here gave the advice to never open limp after MP2 which I have used with much sucess (I blind steal all the way down to 76s). If others have limped in front I of course play close to the SSH defaults but I (almost) never open limp because I want to take control of the hand and anything that I feel I should play on these tight a tables in EP I should be able to raise with preflop. Is this the proper way to play these situations?
Just looking for advice.

[benkath1]

Looks like you have it down pretty good.

What limits are you playing? I've got some bonus dollars to work off there and thinking of giving the 1/2 a shot.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
(I know preflop questions are gay)

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't read your post (sorry), but I just wanted to say that PF questions should be fine for this forum. If you aren't going to ask PF questions in the micros forum, then there are no other places to ask them.

[nomadtla]

I wander between .25/.5 and 1/2 depending on the available tables. BTW Thanks for the reply

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(I know preflop questions are gay)

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't read your post (sorry), but I just wanted to say that PF questions should be fine for this forum. If you aren't going to ask PF questions in the micros forum, then there are no other places to ask them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does that mean you're gonna read my post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[deception5]

You are absolutely correct. You should be much less inclined to limp with these hands when there are aggressive players to your left yet to act.

You may even want to use this shorthanded chart for playing from MP2 on (giving more respect obviously to limpers/raisers from early position than this chart would). Should be exactly the same if it's folded to you. Just change UTG to MP2 and MP to MP3.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...amp;PHPSESSID=

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
I play at UB and the tables tend to be pretty tight and agressive. 30-35% see flop but +50% of hands raised preflop (though most are just one raise), and weak/tight after the flop (generally giving a lot of credit to the PFR). In these sort of situations would anyone think that open limping is not appropriate. I've been more or less playing by the SSH tight table chart but I still find that it feels uncomfortable to limp in EP (UTG-MP1) with some of the weaker hands that SSH sugests for EP because it will be raised behind me and shut out the pot now I have a mediocre hand OOP. I've started to flip a coin (raise/fold) for the higher end of these EP limps (KJs, ATs, AJo, KQo), and almost always drop the lower end (JTs, QTs, 88 77). Now someone here gave the advice to never open limp after MP2 which I have used with much sucess (I blind steal all the way down to 76s). If others have limped in front I of course play close to the SSH defaults but I (almost) never open limp because I want to take control of the hand and anything that I feel I should play on these tight a tables in EP I should be able to raise with preflop. Is this the proper way to play these situations?
Just looking for advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

hi.
don't open limp hands with which you don't want to pay 2 small bets to see the flop, if 50% of hands are being raised (that number seems way high though).

"higher end of these EP limps (KJs, ATs, AJo, KQo)"
these are all pretty much fundamental raises for me in EP at loose tables and tables you describe here.

"lower end (JTs, QTs, 88 77)"
JTs and QTs, yeah, i'd fold them maybe i'd raise QTs.
88 and 77 I'd raise them (definitely 88, maybe not 77)

at tight tables where preflop raises get respect, I open up my raising standards a lot, until people start to play back at me. I'll raise suited aces, A7o+, KJo, pairs 77+... Often you pick up many small pots, and when you get big hands they are completely disguised. it also depends on the types of players yet to act after you and their 3-betting ranges.

for what it's worth, i don't think 30-35% seeing the flop is "tight". though i'm not suggesting you use the sshe "loose table" chart either. charts are no goot for optimal play.

[nomadtla]

yeah I've seen that chart before and it was actually that along with the 6 max creed that made me come to the decision to never open limp even at full ring (because of the general table texture)

[GrunchCan]

Ok, I've read your post now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

First, if you haven't yet, read this thread. As you can see, I'm strongly opposed to open-limping any pot in any position with a TP-type hand.

Now you are wondering if the table conditions you describe warrant more open-limping with TP hands. I'd say definitely not. But they might dictate whether or not you want to play more or fewer TP-type hands. If I'm sitting at a table that is extremely aggressive with a hand like KJo in EP, I am far more likely to fold PF than if I'm sitting at a loose & passive table. I will never open-limp, however.

So, table conditions dictate if you open a pot with a given TP-type hand. They don't change how you should open the pot.

By the way, I would not describe that table as tight-aggressive. I'd describe it as loose-aggressive preflop, and weak-tight postflop. Sounds like a fantastic opportunity to open-raise all sorts of TP-type hands, and then continue firing on the flop. If you get post-flop callers, bail UI. If you don't, you just won a big pot.

[DeathDonkey]

You sound like you are doing ok and good thought process here. I think the better discussion would be how do you exploit the weak tightness postflop? If they over respect the preflop raiser than I'm playing tight up front and a quasi-maniac in position. Oh wait that's normal.

-DeathDonkey