Problem hand...

ddss6_99 · #1 12-10-2004, 10:25 PM

I always have a problem in these situations. I know that the odds of flush over flush are pretty slim, but when facing a raise and some cold callers, I can't get myself to pull the trigger on a 3-bet. I'm probably losing out on money by not 3-betting, but I'm not sure. What do you think?
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, SB folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (18 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB
Main Pot: 22 BB, between MP1, MP2, MP3 and Hero.

milesdyson · #2 12-10-2004, 10:34 PM

MP2 probably just has the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Your play is inconsistent with your thinking. You say you're afraid of flush over flush, and the turn brings a card that would complete these higher flushes. Yet, you check-raise.

No one with a big club is folding, and whoever you think has a higher flush is three betting you.

Three bet the flop. If it turns out that you lose to a higher flush (or that two running clubs give the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - this is more likely), so be it.

Shillx · #3 12-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Your play is inconsistent with your thinking. You say you're afraid of flush over flush, and the turn brings a card that would complete these higher flushes. Yet, you check-raise.

No one with a big club is folding, and whoever you think has a higher flush is three betting you.

I think that our hero should have bet the turn. Having said that, you do understand why a turn check/raise is much better then a check/call, right?

Shill

illunious · #4 12-10-2004, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Three bet the flop. If it turns out that you lose to a higher flush (or that two running clubs give the A - this is more likely), so be it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I 3 bet the flop also.

After that, I bet the turn.

ddss6_99 · #5 12-10-2004, 10:52 PM

If I'm not mistaken, a check/raise will put more $ in the pot and if you are 3-bet you could always slow down. Ckeck/call is very weak and timid, it'd cost you $ in the long run. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

milesdyson · #6 12-10-2004, 10:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that our hero should have bet the turn. Having said that, you do understand why a turn check/raise is much better then a check/call, right?

Shill

[/ QUOTE ]
Is that directed to me or the original poster?

Shillx · #7 12-10-2004, 11:07 PM

For anyone really.

General comment: Anyone who worries about flush over flush (when they have a small flush and there are more cards to come) in a big multiway pot needs to re-evaluate their game. A small flush is one hand that you need to play very aggressively when the pot gets big.

Shill

davelin · #8 12-10-2004, 11:58 PM

I wish I had "problem" hands like these. Flush over flush happens, but most times it doesn't.