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  #11  
Old 12-15-2005, 12:07 AM
willmay3 willmay3 is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

[ QUOTE ]
I think no information is better than bad information. I think these articles were poor on the whole and will start you off as a very weak tight nut peddler. There were some decent points, but he basically assumes the game is a showdown game, which it is not. There are many pots to be stolen and many splits which can be turned into scoops with well timed bets. I thought much of the advice was questionable to poor from starting hand selection to his postflop recommendations.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is geared to the new player, though, that's not such a bad place to start. In fact, that is a GREAT place to start.

Also, in a typical $400 buy in or lower game at Stars or Party, there is no need to get aggressive and try and pick up pots with position raises or exploit small edges.

The reason is, about twice an hour, your average weak/tight/nut peddler has an opportunity to EXPLOIT a HUGE edge with one of the minnows that populate this game, by 3/4ing him or even, and this happens not infrequently, scooping a pot with 4 people seeing the showdown and you have lock - lock both ways with the nut flush and low and getting someone with like KK32 suited in Kings, and other with the Q high flush,and someone with the 2nd nut low ALL calling a pot sized bet on the end.

How SWEET it is.

Now, I'm rarely the player who does this. I'm usually the guy with the KK32, but my point is why try to be macho with these guys in a hand to hand fight over a $6 pot when they will walk up to you and give you $200 later. And, I mean just GIVE it to you, in a little box, with a little bow.

Let me tell you a small story. Got a friend, name is Mike, decent HE player. He HATES limit O8 b/c you can't, in his words, "bitch people out" of pots with a big raise like you can in PL and NL HE. He LOVES PLO8B, b/c you can do the aforementioned phrase.

This is the guy that is playing you in PLO8 today. The kind of guy that with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] limps in from early position, then with four callers and a Pot sized raise calls the raise and then on this flop:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He checks, the pot goes check-check-check -check to the button who pots it and the he REpots all-in it to run into you on the button with:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


He is now chasing you high and is tied with you low and is VERY counterfitable (?) with ZERO chance to catch you BOTH ways. Your EV on every dollar that is going in the pot is over .72.

I think this is the point the guy in the articles is making. Yes, against good players you must play much more sophisticated than this, but at Stars and Party there is ZERO reason to do that, because there is ALWAYS a game with people this stupid in it. I know because I was the stupid one before, hoping not to be that guy in the future.

You call it weak/tight, I call it shooting fish in a barrel. Is it challenging, no. Is it profitable, YES!!!!!
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2005, 01:18 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

The point is, he never covers when you should play aggressively, and proper aggression is key in PLO8. Often strong drawing hands are going to be nice favroites over the nut made hands on the flop, so recognizing these situations where you would like to get as much money in as possible is very important.

For instance a nut low draw with a flush draw is about an 11 to 9 favorite over top set with 2 to come and it is a nice image play to push this very hard. Pushing this hand hard is also good because it is an 11 to 9 favorite over middle and bottom sets which may fold incorrectly because they fear drawing to 1 out against top set. Of course he doesn't cover that you might want to push a hand that is not currently the nuts hard enough to get all in on the flop does he? The same hand (nut low draw nut flush draw on the flop) is a 13 to 7 favorite over a made straight which is why you don't want to put your money all in with a made straight. Also, playing this hand strong might push out non-nut straights incorrectly. He could also mention that this is why often flopped sets and straights should wait for a safe turn card before getting very active on draw heavy boards. They should push hard on a safe turn where they become the significant favorite.

Once you have a lock both ways, you are rarely going to get much more money in the pot. You must be raising preflop and betting flops to get a lot of money in by the turn or river.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2005, 04:49 PM
jhall23 jhall23 is offline
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Posts: 340
Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

[ QUOTE ]
The only other thing on PLO8b I had read is Ray Zee, and this stuff contradicts Zee's page.

I am terrible at the game, but the articles made me think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link? Or is this in his Hi/Low split book?
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:51 PM
As Zehn As Zehn is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

There are about 3 pages in the HL Split book.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:34 PM
jhall23 jhall23 is offline
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Default Re: Pot Limit Omaha 8 by Steve Ruddock

Brilliant. I shall rush out and buy it and become a master.
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