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  #11  
Old 08-16-2005, 12:25 PM
stigmata stigmata is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 118
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keeping a big roll online is, IMHO, folly. No
online poker provider is even close to bank
safe. We're talking orders of magnitude more
risky.

Feel free to keep 300 BBs on deposit to play 15-30
but you will be grinding for quite some time (after you stop crying) to make it back if it goes away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing the conservative bankroll strategy includes money in Neteller, online accounts, etc. As far as I'm concerned, if you can reload from Neteller instantaneously, it's part of your BR.

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How many times do I have to say this. Neteller is NOT bank safe. Keep most of your bankroll on reputable poker sites and in your bank account. Keep as little money as you can in Neteller.

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Actually, Neteller should be reasonably safe, at least where I live. It is safeguarded the same as any other bank:

[ QUOTE ]

These changes were made following the authorisation of NETELLER (UK) Ltd by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) of the United Kingdom to operate as an Electronic Money Issuer and in order to comply with current European financial and consumer protection regulations.

As a result of these new changes, we can now provide members with additional benefits:

Confidence that funds held by us in your NETELLER account are protected in accordance with FSA regulations.


[/ QUOTE ]
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2005, 12:42 PM
meow_meow meow_meow is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 180
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

I think saying a >500BB roll for a given limit at which you have a decent track record (i.e. the next best thing to a "proven winner") is quite excessive.
Everyone seems to talk about bankroll as if it can never be reloaded. This is probably true of only a very tiny proportion of poker players.

The only way that a 300BB bankroll is insufficient for a winning player is if the following criteria are met:
1. Reloading your bankroll is impossible/very slow
2. You are not willing to step down if you suffer a significant reversal.

That said, I personally play at a much lower level than my bankroll would allow, because I'm risk averse, and the money I make is sufficient for my needs. I am very aware that I'm giving up a lot of EV, and I can live with that.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2005, 12:49 PM
FlFishOn FlFishOn is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 142
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

"I also think partypoker is pretty damn solvent. "

Solvency is not security. If your account is frozen tomorrow because several 'friends' complain about your collusive play what is your recourse? You already know the answer but most online pros prefer to ignore reality. Facts are stubborn things.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2005, 12:59 PM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 605
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

[ QUOTE ]
I think saying a >500BB roll for a given limit at which you have a decent track record (i.e. the next best thing to a "proven winner") is quite excessive.
Everyone seems to talk about bankroll as if it can never be reloaded. This is probably true of only a very tiny proportion of poker players.

The only way that a 300BB bankroll is insufficient for a winning player is if the following criteria are met:
1. Reloading your bankroll is impossible/very slow
2. You are not willing to step down if you suffer a significant reversal.

That said, I personally play at a much lower level than my bankroll would allow, because I'm risk averse, and the money I make is sufficient for my needs. I am very aware that I'm giving up a lot of EV, and I can live with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of things here. When someone moves up in stakes, they don't know if they are a winner there. They can make all the conjectures they want, but they do not know for sure. Even if they are a winner, they won't what their WR is. People with a WR of less than 1BB, espeicially in aggressive games, will experience tremendous swings that will make a 300BB bankroll extremely insufficent.


The mere fact that all winning players report downswings in the 150-300+ BB range should be a heads up that these can occur at any time, and you should have a padded role to protect against such occurances. All of a sudden, 500BB doesn't seem excessive after a 200BB downswing, right?

Some people will adamantly maintain that there is something about their game that makes them immune to such huge swings, an this is never true. I know because i used to be one of those people. I didn't have a losing week the first 3 months that i started playing limit poker. The fact that people could break even for 25K+ hands seemed ludicrous to me. But after playing more, moving up to games that i could not beat for 4BB/100, i realized that these things were very possible. 500BB isn't excessive by any stretch IMO...

Gabe
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:00 PM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 605
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

[ QUOTE ]
"I also think partypoker is pretty damn solvent. "

Solvency is not security. If your account is frozen tomorrow because several 'friends' complain about your collusive play what is your recourse? You already know the answer but most online pros prefer to ignore reality. Facts are stubborn things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker sites do not seize money without being very confident that the player has engaged in illegal activity. There might be some false accusations, but those are just about always worked out. You have to keep in mind how important their PR is, so they will be amn sure not to make an error when it comes to confiscating money for a BS reason.
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:06 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: memphis
Posts: 1,245
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

I typically keep my money spread out over various sites....and I don't have more money in any one site to really hurt me should I lose it.


However...none of this has anything to do with how much of a 'bankroll' one should have for their poker play at a certain level.

The amount of money you have on one site is NOT your bankroll...it's just the amount FROM your total bankroll that you happen to have on a specific site.

my 'bankroll' is spread out over 5 or 6 poker-sites, neteller, and my checking account.
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  #17  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:10 PM
IlliniRyRy IlliniRyRy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 71
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

I have a 6000 BB bankroll and I still can't stand the swings.
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  #18  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:20 PM
WarBus WarBus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

For my personal well being, I maintain 1000 BBs. About once a year I have a 250-300 BB downswing. If I only had 300 BBs or even 500 BBs available, my play would not be optimal knowing another 100 BB loss could cripple my roll. After these annual big swings my roll is not in jeopardy, but I still move down a limit for about 25K hands. This always helps by logging some wins and finding leaks that are often created due to a prolonged bad streak.
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  #19  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:24 PM
FlFishOn FlFishOn is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 142
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

"Poker sites do not seize money without being very confident that the player has engaged in illegal activity. There might be some false accusations, but those are just about always worked out. You have to keep in mind how important their PR is, so they will be amn sure not to make an error when it comes to confiscating money for a BS reason. "

Pollyanna reports in. Thanks for your thoughts. Get back to us when you are wise to the ways of the real world.
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2005, 01:25 PM
BigF BigF is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 112
Default Re: Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keeping a big roll online is, IMHO, folly. No
online poker provider is even close to bank
safe. We're talking orders of magnitude more
risky.

Feel free to keep 300 BBs on deposit to play 15-30
but you will be grinding for quite some time (after you stop crying) to make it back if it goes away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing the conservative bankroll strategy includes money in Neteller, online accounts, etc. As far as I'm concerned, if you can reload from Neteller instantaneously, it's part of your BR.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times do I have to say this. Neteller is NOT bank safe. Keep most of your bankroll on reputable poker sites and in your bank account. Keep as little money as you can in Neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Neteller should be reasonably safe, at least where I live. It is safeguarded the same as any other bank:

[ QUOTE ]

These changes were made following the authorisation of NETELLER (UK) Ltd by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) of the United Kingdom to operate as an Electronic Money Issuer and in order to comply with current European financial and consumer protection regulations.

As a result of these new changes, we can now provide members with additional benefits:

Confidence that funds held by us in your NETELLER account are protected in accordance with FSA regulations.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Uh....no. Don't be fooled by that BS. It's clearly stated in their T&C that it's YOUR responsibility to safeguard your money, not theirs. I should know because I lost all my Neteller money once (and got it back by pure luck).

Now I only have less than a grand in Neteller for bonus whoring.
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