QTo, T88 flop, 3-bet on the flop and bet into on the turn.

[LaggyLou]

Same game as my other post, about a half hour later and after UTG from that hand has tilted off all of his money. The BB in this hand had sat down for about 25 hands and had played about 6 of them, never raising. The table had gone pretty passive in response to the now gone tilting UTG, and hardly anyone was raising preflop except me and the departed tilter.

PartyPoker 2/4 9 handed

Hero is UTG+1 and is dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP3 posts

UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="red"> BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) folds, CO and SB calls.

<font color="blue">(5 players, 11 SB)</font>
Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, <font color="red"> BB bets</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, all fold to BB, <font color=" red">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

<font color="blue">(2 players, 8.5 BB)</font>
Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font color="red">BB Bets</font>, Hero ...........???????

[Nick Royale]

A nice fold preflop would have saved you the trouble. But in this situation I fold the turn as you mentioned BB was passive, and passive players don't 3-bet that flop with a hand you're ahead of. And you have only 2 outs. I might cap the flop to be able to make an even safer laydown if he bets the turn, but that don't seem necessary.

[Fat Nicky]

Fold pre-flop.

To the way you played it, On a paired board, a passive player is usually telling you he beats a pair when he raises. Lay it down.

[MoreWineII]

Fold preflop. Failing that, fold the turn.

I know you said the table is passive, but limping with offsuit easily dominated hands like QTo from early position is really bad.

[LaggyLou]

Hmmmm...looks like the consensus is that even on a passive table I should be chucking the little offsuit broadways at this level. Good to know -- I only this month made the jump from 1/2 (where at certain tables these could be played profitably) and so I'm looking for adjustments.

On the turn play --

I'm surprised people put so much stock into a read based on only 25 hands. Basically, I played him as if I didn't have a read because while I didn't see him raise in the hands he played before this you don't usually see truly passive players raise from the BB into a large field even with KK or AA.

Given the preflop raise, I did not put him on a hand that contained an 8, and frankly doubted that he had a T. Rather, I thought it likely that he had AA-JJ. Given that, I thought I would give him a chance to fold the turn and/or scare him into checking the river, and I raised. I reasoned that if he called and checked I'd get a showdown for the same price as call-call, and if he 3-bet I would have to let it go. Bad thinking?

[MoreWineII]

What are you hoping to improve to though? I guess if he has JJ, you can make a better two pair. I'd say that you likely have only two outs. btw, *nobody* is folding folding JJ-AA to a flop raise. Very few would even fold it to a turn raise.

If you put him on specifically AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or AQ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and you are determined to get to showdown, I'd take this line: Check/call the flop, check/call the turn, bet the river (fold to a raise) if it's not a club, A, or K.

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you hoping to improve to though? I guess if he has JJ, you can make a better two pair. I'd say that you likely have only two outs. btw, *nobody* is folding folding JJ-AA to a flop raise. Very few would even fold it to a turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to clarify, I didn't put him on AA-JJ until he three bet. On the turn, I thought that I was probably beat and drawing to two outs, but that he *might* lay an overpair down, and that was my best shot to win. So I'm essentially getting 9-2 odds on the bluff if I raise. Against a pretty unknown 2/4 player, is that a bad bet? (It seems from the responses that the answer is *yes*, which is the type of information I'm looking for.

[bisonbison]

I only this month made the jump from 1/2 (where at certain tables these could be played profitably) and so I'm looking for adjustments.

Even at 1/2, I doubt there are tables where QTo is profitable in the long run from EP.