King Yao's thoughts on Poker/Trading skill overlap

[Sniper]

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Having read what you said, I've always considered disclosing my gambling career to employers but it definetly seems very risky, depending on their disposition.... I've been successful at poker for the past 3 years, started when I was 17. Pays for tuition.

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Saying "I paid my own way thru college by playing poker", would generally be a plus to many employers. Like any experience you have, its all the way that you spin it. Being able to talk about risk management and evaluating alternatives based on EV are all pluses.

[Sniper]

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Hahaha, ya stockbroker sure sucks.

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A stockbroker is a salesman position, and a job that is definately less attractive now that more people are eductaing themselves to trading/investing for themselves online.

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Hey I always wondered, if the nyse goes electronic with that archipelago thing, what will the traders do? Wouldn't they no longer be needed?

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When the NYSE goes all electronic, the traders will just "go upstairs". They will not be needed on the trading floor, but they will still serve a useful purpose. Just take a look at the structure of nasdaq trading.

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Another question, if I work out west, wouldn't I have to get up at approx 4 a.m. to see all the news before the premarket opens at 8a.m. in new york?

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Your schedule out west would definately be different than your schedule in New York.

[bob2007]

Ya that's exactly how I felt. Needed someone to confirm.

[coolhandsun]

I'd agree a hundred percent with the relation in skills between trading and poker. I trade for an options market making firm on the west coast. SUSQ actually pulled most of their operation from our floor, but I know a former trader or two from there.

The statement about the "playing poker" with brokers and traders especially rings true. Each trade/quote feels like a hand of poker where neither side wants to expose their holding (order/position). But both sides have small tells. Trying to get the best price or keep an order on your floor fells like eeking out extra big bets. A sense of odds, risk, and value also benefit both very well.

As options trading (and trading in general) goes more electronic, making markets feels a lot like multitabling online poker. Juggling 100+ books involves a fair amount of multi-tasking and staying on top of many situations at a time while avoiding all the possible pitfalls, traps, and mistakes.

Oddly enough, a lot of the guys in my pit play poker during the day. I'm constantly joking on how psyched they are when they pick up a pot, while their being distracted just cost them plenty of opportunities.

I know I hope NYSE goes more electronic. That was def the intention of the merger. Nothing sucks more than having a specialist lean on your stock orders, especially selling short.

Working market hours on the west coast has its ups and downs. I have a hard time going out during the week as I have to be at work by 5:30. But on the flip side I can walk out the door at 1:30 if I want and have 7hrs of daylight. It allowed me to do things like coach a lacrosse team that I never would have been able to do otherwise.

And about exposing your poker to your boss....I actually had "blackjack card counting" on my resume when I applied to my firm out of college.


Gavin

Weren't Victor Sperandeo, Stanley Druckenmiller, and Jeff Yass also great poker players?

[DavidC]

I'm a moron, what are derrivatives? I mean, I know equities, I know bonds, and while I don't know all the different types of options contracts, I know roughly what they do... but what the hell are derivatives? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sniper]

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I'm a moron, what are derrivatives?

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When you trade stocks, you actually own a piece of a business.

When you trade options or futures, for example, you don't OWN anything except the RIGHT to possibly own something, hence the term derivative.

Kinda like making a side bet with a friend on a poker hand that both of you are watching. You have no actual stake in the pot, but you've made a derivative bet on the outcome.

[DavidC]

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I'm a moron, what are derrivatives?

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When you trade stocks, you actually own a piece of a business.

When you trade options or futures, for example, you don't OWN anything except the RIGHT to possibly own something, hence the term derivative.

Kinda like making a side bet with a friend on a poker hand that both of you are watching. You have no actual stake in the pot, but you've made a derivative bet on the outcome.

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Thanks a lot man.

[Python49]

Can someone explain more in depth what a day trader does? What is a typical day for a day trader like and how much money can they expect to make. I am in college... do they teach any of this stuff? Or is this just another field taht im interested in which college doesnt help with at all (similar to real estate and investing). Do you need to have a degree for this job? I'd probably have one in finance. Is this job stressful like poker? Im very interested.

[Zygote]

Ever think about financial planning?

I live in the GTA and would be in my 3rd year of finance at western had i not dropped out to play poker. Considering i hadn't gone into poker, financial planning is probably what i would've done.