AKo, TPTK, should I fold it?

kross · #1 08-15-2005, 08:39 PM

Villain is another typical loose-passive.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Is this a bad fold? I didn't like the turn raise. By the river there isn't much I beat. Am I good 1 in 8 times?

Should I have Clarkmeistered the river?

Thanks!
-- Kevin

Hojglad · #2 08-15-2005, 08:41 PM

I would have folded the turn. That said, if you call the turn, you really should call the river, as you are basically putting the guy on a bluff if you call down. By the river, it doesn't really matter if he has a flush or not - he doesn't need one to beat you. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

GoHoosiers · #3 08-15-2005, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you call the turn, you really should bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Rich

kross · #4 08-15-2005, 08:47 PM

Yeah I wasn't sure about the turn. But I guess that was the decision point. Fold now or see a showdown, right?

Just to be clear, we would only fold against a passive player (on the turn). We're seeing a showdown against more aggresive players?

Vote4Pedro · #5 08-15-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is another typical loose-passive

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a bad fold? I didn't like the turn raise. By the river there isn't much I beat. Am I good 1 in 8 times?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a hard time believing the player your described is capable of bluff raising the turn and following it up on the river...folding is fine

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have Clarkmeistered the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Hojglad · #6 08-15-2005, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you call the turn, you really should bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know that I agree. You are going to get raised by a nut flush, ragged two pair will probably make a crying call, and the flush that could have gotten there on the turn will call out of desperation. If you call this turn, you are saying "I think I have a better hand than you." If that's true on the turn, it's likely to be the case on the river. If you bet the river, it gives the other dude a chance to bluff, and steal the pot.

I don't advocate a call down here or a river bet. I advocate a turn fold. However, given that the OP called the turn, he/she should call the river.

Vote4Pedro · #7 08-15-2005, 08:51 PM

Bet/Fold will work almost never in this situation...this guy isnt folding for one bet

Hojglad · #8 08-15-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, we would only fold against a passive player (on the turn). We're seeing a showdown against more aggresive players?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't necessarily agree with this either. I tend to raise an aggressive bettor when I hit a flush, don't you? Against a passive player though, this pot is so small that I can fold without a second thought. Good for them if they pushed me off TPTK with a worse hand.

kross · #9 08-15-2005, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, we would only fold against a passive player (on the turn). We're seeing a showdown against more aggresive players?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't necessarily agree with this either. I tend to raise an aggressive bettor when I hit a flush, don't you? Against a passive player though, this pot is so small that I can fold without a second thought. Good for them if they pushed me off TPTK with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I become a calling station, probably because I hate the thought of being bluffed off the best hand.

But after thinking about it, I definitely agree with folding the turn here. Small pot. Drawing thin if behind to two-pair, drawing dead to a flush or set.

It's these kinds of situations where I tend to bleed off chips. I need to work on that.

-- Kevin

Shillx · #10 08-15-2005, 09:54 PM

When he raises the turn, the pot is 6.5 BB. Against all non-flush hands that beat you (save KK and QQ), you have 14.1% equity. So in order to call the turn, you would need to be getting 6:1.

The problem is that he will sometimes have a flush as well. There are 45 ways that he can hold a flush, and that equates to 4.3% of all possible hands. All other hands that beat you compose of 8.1% of possible hands.

So your total equity in this spot is .141*.081/.124 = 9.2%. In order to call the turn raise, you would have to be getting 9.9:1. This looks like a fold against the player you describe.

Brad