Liberal Blind Defense

[Senor Choppy]

Preflop is a must call in that situation with any 2.

Postflop I think betting and folding to a raise is probably the only +EV move you can make to take it away. Check-raising, check-call/betting, all these destroy your odds and a less intimidating looking line with better odds is probably best. I think check-raising sometimes has merit against the right guy, but again, I think betting is better, as check-raising has to work twice as often.

[DanZ]

I have not read the other posts, but...

The call is not unreasonable given the odds, hoever, notice you really we'rent getting 5.5-1. You put all this money in on the flop, drawing dead but paying 3 sb into the pot at even $.

If you were calling to catch a miracle flop, or test him on a scary low board, this is perhaps reasonable. To call in the hopes of pushing him off his hand on a board like this with a flop-bet flurry is not. You have tremendous reversed implied odds.

Dan Z.

[theBruiser500]

ike all i have to say is i respect very much that no where in your post do you say some bullshit cop out like "okay this isn't normal for me, just mixing it up" or "last hand of the session so whatever"

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is a must call in that situation with any 2.


[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen 2 or 3 people say this in this thread. How are you guys reaching this conclusion? I'm willing to be convinced that this is a good call, but as it stands right now, I don't see how 5.5:1 is anywhere close to being enough to call with crap like 52o out of position vs a preflop TAG raiser. What, are you going to take your flopped pair of 2s to showdown? Are you going to chase to the river just because both of your cards might still be drawing live vs his A high? Just how often do you think you'll flop the monster required to make this call profitable?

I want to hear some solid arguments.

[mike l.]

"I want to hear some solid arguments."

you wont. there's no reason on earth to play 52o there. none. it's mindless spewage.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to hear some solid arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]


pokenum -h ah kc - 5s 2d
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Ah 1102765 64.40 601104 35.10 8435 0.49 0.646
5s 2d 601104 35.10 1102765 64.40 8435 0.49 0.354

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1072609

[Noo Yawk]

Your not really talking about defending your blind. Your trying to justify playing 2-5 off with 5.5 to 1 odds because you want to outplay a TAG with 5 high out of position post flop.

Please don't take this wrong Ike, because I like your posts, but everytime I see hands where people are missing flops, I think ok, then fold. Yet there's another paragraph that has 3 more bets in it, and I'm left wondering why.

In your defense, at least you folded to the cap. Some of the posts I've seen involve like sixteen more big bets.

Poker may have changed, but it's still ok to let go of rags in the BB, fold when you miss, and take free cards when their offered.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want to hear some solid arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]


pokenum -h ah kc - 5s 2d
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Ah 1102765 64.40 601104 35.10 8435 0.49 0.646
5s 2d 601104 35.10 1102765 64.40 8435 0.49 0.354

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1072609

[/ QUOTE ]
This is nearly worthless because it assumes going to the river when the flop is QJ2 or winning on the river when the final board is QJ982.

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop terrible , postflop bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post.

the fact that people on this forum think playing 52o OOP vs. a TAG is reasonable boggles my mind.
Add the fact that with 2 late posters, the TAG is NOT on any kind of stealing play.

The twodimes figures, as another poster pointed out, are meaningless b/c they assume a showdown for both players with no more money going in.

I'm open-minded and willing to be convinced that I'm wrong, but god, that's going to take a lot of work in this case.
Playing 52o is terrible in nearly any situation. With an UTG raise and 8 cold-callers I'd still have trouble putting in more money with that trash.
You don't need to make something out of EVERY hand. I can't imagine a worse scenario than this one for putting more of your money in the middle: OOP, trash cards, TAG raiser not on steal.
Fold. An extra $30 of dead money doesn't change things.

[AceHigh]

The point is you are getting a huge overlay so you can fold the scary flops and play the ones that look good for you.