Yassir Arafat, RIP

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, Arafat was pretty much good.


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Then that makes you pretty much bad -- or suffering from a gross misunderstanding of the meaning of the terms "good" and "bad."

[Chris Alger]

I have all sorts of problems with Arafat and the rest of the PLO leadership. Calling Arafat a "terrorist" or one who advocates murdering civilians, while failing to apply the same moniker to his opponents -- even those like Gamblor who has made it clear that marketplace bombings against Arab civilians were justified -- is hypocritical. Moreover, it's fairly common knowledge the PLO is an umbrella organization that cntained all sorts of different stripes of Palestinian national groups. Arafat was considered by intelligence analysts and other close observers as one of the moderates who recognized terror as counterproductive. He was instrumental in getting the PLO to renounce the use of terror.

As for the money, it's funny that no one ever points out the obvious truth that Arafat hardly spends anything on himself. He insists on keeping PLO finances under his exclusive authority, to the point of having to personally sign checks for tiny amounts.

[Chris Alger]

You can't cut and paste with your machine? If want to offer proof that Arafat has advocated murdering civilians or orchestrating terror attacks, then do it. Don't tell people that there's some secret proof hidden someplace if only they'll "clink the link" and search for it.

Besides, its the same old garbage. The documents linked in your link show payments authorized, in a few cases, by Arafat. Then the source interpreting the documents concludes with no evidence that the recipients are all "terrorists," apparently only becuase they are wanted or have been killed by Israel, including those who's only action has been to forcibly resist Israel's illegal occupation and settlement of the occupied territories.

In short, the only thing your documents show is that the interpreter thinks that everyone on Israel's hit list is a "terrorist." Since your source is an Israeli propaganda outlet, of course it labels every opponent of Israel a "terrorist." That doesn't make it so.

[Chris Alger]

What are you, retarded? Some Arab hate outfit puts together a slide presentation juxtaposing 9/11 carnage with Arafat's face, and you think that's evidence of something, or that anyone who objects is implying that suicide bombing isn't terrorism? Why can't you at least feign a little honesty here?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you, retarded? Some Arab hate outfit puts together a slide presentation juxtaposing 9/11 carnage with Arafat's face, and you think that's evidence of something, or that anyone who objects is implying that suicide bombing isn't terrorism? Why can't you at least feign a little honesty here?

[/ QUOTE ]
It really stinks in here, probably because there is a huge pile of bullshit everywhere! Thanks Chris.

[mmbt0ne]

What's with your "clink the link" comment, which I'm not sure if it was directed as a subtle insult at me since everything was spelled correctly in my previous post? You're getting very defensive and all I did was offer something up that I felt was evidence of Arafat's terrorist ties. Yes, I can copy and paste, that's how I put the paragraph from the website in my post. Would you like me to image post more as well?

http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/ya/money_tc.htm
"A letter from Khaled Abd Al-Aziz Muhammad Sif, a member of the Fatah Nablus branch committee, to Marwan Barghouti. He asks for aid for a squad of 7 wanted terrorists, which carries out “quality operations” and faces severe “economic problems.""

http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/ya/money_td.htm
"A certificate signed by Marwan Barghouti, to whom it may concern, according to which the terrorists whose names are mentioned in it are Tanzim members and should be assisted in carrying out their duties. This is a squad of 9 terrorists involved in shooting and explosive charge attacks, and direction of suicide bombings in Israel. [The head of the squad was arrested during Operation "Defensive Shield". In his investigation he confessed that he had decided to work under Barghouti’s patronage in order to promote his own status and that of his activists.]"

I guess the fact that they are internationally wanted terrorists and suicide bombers just doesn't cut it for you though. And I don't see any need for extreme douchebaggery of your post. I wasn't attacking you in any way, but you felt the need to make me the enemy. Sorry for being less of a man because I forgot how to use Control-C/Control-V.

Another question for you. Since Israel should obviously give back the land they won in a war, if Mexicans start suicide bombing Corpus Christi, and Dallas do you think we should give Texas back to Mexico? After all, we won that in a war as well.

[Regulator]

What exactly do you think the purpose of these groups are? Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa, Al Qaeda ... they aren't [censored] social clubs, man. If you're the leader of Fatah and members of Fatah massacre a bunch of people, you sure as hell know about it, assuming you didn't order it yourself anyway. Wake up, because that defense made you look extremely dumb, as is the rest of this thread. I mean, honestly, stuff like this doesn't arise out of simple propaganda. Are there photos with J. Edgar Hoover in ladies underwear? I doubt it, but everyone knew he was a crossdresser.

[Cyrus]

"Since it is apparent Sharon is the problem now and not Arafat..."

It always was -- people like Sharon, I mean.

"...who was to blame in the mid 90's? Rabin? Is it always Israel to you?"

If you are referring to the two intifadahs, I cannot see your point. They were started practically spontaneously, in the streets, one by the frustrated and routinely abused Palestinians, who lost patience with Arafat's "olive branch" waving, and the other when Sharon provoked mass reaction by visiting the controversial Al Aqsa mosque site. Both intifadahs delighted the Israeli leadership, because it was "trapped" into negotiations with Arafat, who tried his damnedest to keep the military actions in check.

And, no, it is not "always Israel" to me. As a matter of fact (if anyone here cares about facts), there have been more Palestinians killed off by "brother" Arabs than by Israelis! But that was counting upto the 90s, now the Israelis may have surpassed the Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians and Tunisians.

"Seriously, how can you possibly defend a man that was the leader of the Palestinian movement for what like 30 years?"

What is wrong with a national liberation movement like the Palestinians'? What is wrong with any national liberation movement? How has it come to this, to have America, the supposed protector of liberty, going after national liberation movements with such venom?

It has not been "always Israel" to me -- but it has always been Israel in American foreign policy. To the great detriment of both American interests and national security. Good job, folks.

"In that entire time, groups (which [Arafat] could have controlled) killed thousands of innocent civilians, and did nothing to try to solve the problem."

You have not bee paying attention! Look see:

++ The radical Palestinians have been propped up and heavily supported by ..Israel! Hamas and the like were strengthened in order to antagonize and sap the popularity of the secular and more moderate PLO.

++ Arafat was given some nominal authority (no more than a mayor's) but that was quickly stepped on and destroyed by repeated Israeli excursions into the little "Bantustans" the Palestinians were allowed to live in a few years ago. If you read the accounts, you will see that every time the Israeli tanks rolled in, the soldiers made sure to destroy all Palestinian Authority infrastructure (computers, offices, paper work, etc).

++ When Arafat was left impotent in Ramallah, Sharon's government started accusing him of not doing anything to stop the suicide bombers - when in reality Arafat could not even order take away.

...To "get serious", you of ask me? I wonder sometimes what "serious" means to you.

[Cyrus]

"[The Arafat proposals] have only seriously proposed this in your imagination Alger."

Wakey,

If these threads confuse your perspective of reality, do yourself a favour and don't read them. You see, these threads contain a little unpleasantness called "facts". And you have a history of being confused by facts.

So, be careful...

Your bossom pal,

--Cyrus

[chabibi]

If you seriously believe that the two antifadas were started spontaneously then you have your headway up your ass because you are completely clued out to the world. Mass scale violence like that does not just appear out of nowhere. You need money, leadership, training and know how to conduct large scale terrorist operations like the many suicide bombings that occurred in Israel. If you also think that these suicide bombers are just kids sick of the terrible lives they have in the occupied territories think again. They are the product countless hours spent on brainwashing propaganda that is seen everywhere in the Palestinian media form TV commercials to music videos all glamorizing "martyrdom" not to mention the large sums of money the families get for sending a child to blow up israeli civilians. A well organized leadership is needed to make the bombs vests, supply weapons and train terrorists and to distribute financial rewards for the bombers.

Arafat turned to the antifada in 2000 because he had shot down any hope of Palestinians getting an independent state because Arafat did not know how to govern a country he was a terrorist by trade and resumed his old work. There is allot of proof that the second antifada was planned months before Sharon visited the temple mount (I wont supply you with any because it is 3 am and I want to got to sleep but just do a google search), the Palestinian authority used the visit as pretext for a planned war