$60-$120 Hand - Page 4

PokerBabe(aka) · #31 09-30-2002, 12:12 PM

Sure, Jim's hand is concealed. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] However, it seems that UTG doesn't respect the fact that Jim not only bets out of the blind, but he then reraises to 3 bets (again FROM THE BLIND)!. Do you respect 3 bets from the blind? I certainly do. [img]/forums/images/icons/ooo.gif[/img] However, at this limit, it may take 3 (or 4) bets on the turn to get respect. And...I guess he doesn't know Jim very well.... LGPG, Babe

Mason Malmuth · #32 09-30-2002, 01:43 PM

You're on the turn. Many players will fold for two more bets after already putting one in.

MM

Clarkmeister · #33 09-30-2002, 02:14 PM

The pot is big enough that he is correct to call his presumed 3 outer. With AA being the most likely holding for the preflop raiser, I really don't mind dropping the UTG player. He can either make a big mistake and call 2 more, or fold. I don't want him making a breakeven call in a large pot with 3 clean outs.

Vince Lepore · #34 09-30-2002, 04:03 PM

I agree that Jim should not three bet. I believe that he shouldn't three bet because he may be already beaten. But I do not agree that a reason not to three bet is taht you want this guy that may be drawing slim to over call. If you are ahead and you just call and he calls you gain one big bet. If you are ahead and raise and he folds then you still gain one big bet fom the other player. Of course if you just call and the board pairs one of your pairs you may gain three bets from this player you let stay in. But then again he may mistakingly call your raise and you gain two bets anyway. I like to raise when given the opportunity if I think I am ahead. There are exceptions to everything. Hi Mason. Shoud I go on? No? O.K. bye.

Vince

brad · #35 09-30-2002, 05:49 PM

this my thinking.

against a wild player (say short hand type player) be more inclined to 3 bet, and against solid be more inclined to call.

also i think i would bet out on the river if i had just called and a blank rivered. (and kind of be on the fence about calling a raise maybe, just totally depending on local considerations, but probably calling)

one thing i think is that metaconsiderations make just calling the turn and then checking the river kind of weakening unless the game is really kind of tough. betting out on the river always seems to kind of get their goat, heh.

brad

skp · #36 09-30-2002, 07:22 PM

But aren't almost every one of these 60-120 pots raised preflop? If so, the chance of running into KJ and AA as opponents' hands must be lower in the 60-120 games than in a 5-10 game where the hand plays out the same way.

Now, it may be harder to play when out of position in a 60-120 game (because your opponents play better than the average 5-10 bear) but that's a different reason for folding.

skp · #37 09-30-2002, 07:28 PM

But getting rid of a guy with 3 outs is a big plus given the size of the pot.

I am not saying that raising is correct. In fact, I tend to think that calling is more correct. But this is mainly because the turn raiser could have you beat i.e. I agree with Vince. Recall the betting sequence on the flop: Jim bet, UTG raised and the PFR coldcalled. Jim then 3 bet. Now, on the turn PFR raises. That's a real show of strength and deserves some respect.

If, on the other hand, Jim had (erringly) chcekraised PFR on the flop and then PFR raised him on the turn, I might vote for a 3 bet by Jim on teh turn as the antecedent action should not have the PFR thinking that Jim has that big of a hand which means that he could be raising the turn with just AK.