$33 Poll: 8 Left; 15/30 Blinds

[zipppy]

This is a fabricated hand, but the situation occurs on a consistant basis.

8 Left, blinds 15/30; no read on villian (still early).
--before posting--
Seat 1: 1430 chips
Seat 3: 740 chips
Seat 4: 825 chips (VILLIAN)
Seat 5: 775 chips
Seat 6: 1020 chips
Seat 7: 860 chips
Seat 8: 1415 chips
Seat 9: 935 chips (HERO)

Seat 1 is the button.
Seats 3 & 4 post.
Dealt to hero: (K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
Seat 5 folds.
Seat 6 calls.
Seats 7 & 8 fold.
Hero calls.
Seats 9 & 1 fold.
Seat 3 folds.
Villian checks.

Pot -- 90.
Flop:
8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villian bets 60.
Seat 6 folds.

I'm curious as to what other 2+2ers do here.
Hero?

[bennies]

raise it up to 250.



...

just kidding.

[tigerite]

Erm fold preflop generally. Crap hand to play in MP. Crap hand to play most times actually, but from the button it's just about acceptable.

Naturally this is a fold on the flop.

[zipppy]

I pose this poll because this is a spot I've started (awhile ago) raising.

What kind of a hand would the villian have in which he'd bet 60 in this spot? I think a PP of some sort, or perhaps a 2. If it is a PP, there's a good chance it isn't higher than an 8 since he didn't raise pre. (maybe 99 or tens, but usually not JJ or higher).

Do you believe he has an 8? How many of you would bet 2/3 of the pot on an uncoordinated board that gives you a set? More importantly, how many of your opponents will?

Bad/average players live for two things: WPT bluffs, and slow playing big hands.

If I have a read on an opponent, sometimes I choose to fold, and sometimes I choose to check with the intention of raising after the turn.

Thoughts?

>>>ZIPPPY

I raise here. There's a strong chance I'm wrong here, but I'd like to hear why.

I think the 60 bet on the flop is a sign of 1 of 2 things...either he has you beat and is building the pot, in which case you should expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. or, he is bluffing you and expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. are you going to call or raise a pot sized bet on the turn? what will you do if he raises significantly on the turn? if you will fold, i would just fold this now?

Personally, i probably would have limped in with this hand like you did, but i would quickly fold to this raise.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the 60 bet on the flop is a sign of 1 of 2 things...either he has you beat and is building the pot, in which case you should expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. or, he is bluffing you and expect to see a pot sized bet on the turn. are you going to call or raise a pot sized bet on the turn? what will you do if he raises significantly on the turn? if you will fold, i would just fold this now?

Personally, i probably would have limped in with this hand like you did, but i would quickly fold to this raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would only call/raise if I had a strong read on the opponent.

With no read, I raise here. This way I see where he stands before the turn. Mostly I raise because I believe my opponent is bluffing. No one (as in, 97% of people won't) bets that flop with an 8.

And I disagree with one thought: If he's bluffing, and I call, not every opponent will c-bet the turn. Calling will slow a lot of people down. I'm not saying it's good to do because it might slow them down, I'm just saying it's not an automatic that your opponent is going to raise the turn.

My biggest problem with this hand is that ace high has you beat. you whiffed on the flop, why not just lick your wounds, suck up the blind you lost, and find a better spot to maneuver. i just feel like its too early. I believe these types of moves dont pay off nearly well enough to justify it this early. I do like this move later in a sng when blinds are larger...most definitely, but not this early. just my preference.

The reason I dont bluff here is because it just isnt worth it. You may indeed be right and have the best hand here, but there are still 2 cards to come and you are making a move on a tiny pot, with big potential to turn ugly.

I think at the 33s, where i play, it isnt important to take advantage of EVERY situation where you believe you are ahead. Let me explain myself...There are many hands where you are sitting on a big hand and will get paid off. I would put all my chips in on level 1 hand 1 in this situation. But, right now any ace has you beat and the players at the 33s often get married to aces. I just think that you can find a better place, later in the sng, to try this type of move. it just isnt worth the risk this early.

"But, right now any ace has you beat and the players at the 33s often get married to aces. "

Ain't that the truth....and any sooted ace is worth going all-in.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I pose this poll because this is a spot I've started (awhile ago) raising.

What kind of a hand would the villian have in which he'd bet 60 in this spot? I think a PP of some sort, or perhaps a 2. If it is a PP, there's a good chance it isn't higher than an 8 since he didn't raise pre. (maybe 99 or tens, but usually not JJ or higher).

Do you believe he has an 8? How many of you would bet 2/3 of the pot on an uncoordinated board that gives you a set? More importantly, how many of your opponents will?

Bad/average players live for two things: WPT bluffs, and slow playing big hands.

If I have a read on an opponent, sometimes I choose to fold, and sometimes I choose to check with the intention of raising after the turn.

Thoughts?

>>>ZIPPPY

I raise here. There's a strong chance I'm wrong here, but I'd like to hear why.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question is not whether you believe HE has an 8, but whether he believes YOU have an 8.

Such a pleasant fold for me.