LP QJs question

meleader2 · #1 09-05-2005, 01:16 AM

i'm late position with CO, button, and both blinds to act on my left.

i'm holding QJs and the blinds are 100t, 50t. both blinds are double my stack size (1800t).

Push, fold or limp?

benneh · #2 09-05-2005, 01:22 AM

push

DMACM · #3 09-05-2005, 01:26 AM

hero has 18x bb

benneh · #4 09-05-2005, 01:27 AM

hero has 9x bb from what I read.

meleader2 · #5 09-05-2005, 01:30 AM

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hero has 9x bb from what I read.

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sorry sorry, i have 18x bb, villains in the blinds have 36x bb, button and CO are < me.

benneh · #6 09-05-2005, 01:33 AM

a simple 3x bb raise folding to a push then.

Elaboration · #7 09-05-2005, 01:33 AM

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sorry sorry, i have 18x bb, villains in the blinds have 36x bb, button and CO are < me.

[/ QUOTE ]

raise 3xbb

betgo · #8 09-05-2005, 09:53 AM

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a simple 3x bb raise folding to a push then.

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I don't think you can fold to a reraise. You are getting 3-2 pot odds, assuming no ante, and there are an awful lot of hands someone could reraise with where you are not in trouble. You are 47-53 against TT and ahead of some pocket pairs, a 3-2 dog against AKo, 47-53 against Axo, 48-52 against Kxo. You are a 4-1 dog against an overpair, 5-1 dog to QQ, 5-3 to JJ, and 2-1 against a AQ, AJ, KQ, or KJ. There is some possibility you are ahead with queen high.

I don't think you are a 3-2 dog against the blind's range of reraising hands, so without a read, I think you have to call. Plus if you fold it looks weak to the table.

Since you can't fold to a reraise, you might be better off making an overbet open push or miniraising.

meleader2 · #9 09-05-2005, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a simple 3x bb raise folding to a push then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can fold to a reraise. You are getting 3-2 pot odds, assuming no ante, and there are an awful lot of hands someone could reraise with where you are not in trouble. You are 47-53 against TT and ahead of some pocket pairs, a 3-2 dog against AKo, 47-53 against Axo, 48-52 against Kxo. You are a 4-1 dog against an overpair, 5-1 dog to QQ, 5-3 to JJ, and 2-1 against a AQ, AJ, KQ, or KJ. There is some possibility you are ahead with queen high.

I don't think you are a 3-2 dog against the blind's range of reraising hands, so without a read, I think you have to call. Plus if you fold it looks weak to the table.

Since you can't fold to a reraise, you might be better off making an overbet open push or miniraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no ante, but i pushed pre and took it down. DMACM argues it's -ev in the long run. i don't know what to say on the subject, i am neither here nor there when it comes to STT/MTT...but i have placed a lot of top 5 in live MTT games.

betgo · #10 09-05-2005, 11:03 AM

It's EV+. You are only pushing into 2 opponents. Pushing from the button with 22 is clearly EV+. Sklansky did an article on how it is EV+ to push for 30xBB from the SB with A6o. I think that was based on ante. There is just not that much chance one of the blinds has a hand that dominates QJs. A lot of the hands that dominate it are only ahead 2-1.

Open pushing is only very slightly EV+. It depends on whether you want to gamble and how comfortable you are playing the flop.

With a hand like QJs, some people wouldn't mind seeing a flop with position, so you could miniraise or raise 3xBB. If you are better than your opponents at postflop play, you are better off just raising.

I like to open push a lot, but I would probably just raise here. I think that is the better play, but pushing is EV+.