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#21
08-19-2005, 04:44 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Paul Phillips posted convincing evidence that it was a fabrication. [/ QUOTE ] Paul Phillips posted convincing evidence the hand was spliced from different footage. FYI there are at least 3 other instances where this occurs, but they get less coverage. Notable Matthis Andersson with black aces on a monotone spade board versus the guy that had a made flush. Clear splicing, hand still real. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly, which means the hand may have happened, but the footage used to "document" it was fabricated. He recently said on his site "It's unfortunate that the most often cited example of a certainly faked hand is the tony d laydown of trip jacks, because that one might have happened and just been edited together poorly." For more, check http://extempore.livejournal.com/110018.html [/ QUOTE ] yes, but the hand DID happen. tony d admitted he folded it. i dont see what the problem here is... rj [/ QUOTE ] The problem is, Tony D maybe could have called, and gone on to win the pot, and the WSOP, and then poker history would have been changed forever, and Chris Moneymaker would still be humping an accounting job in Tennessee, and who knows, in all his fame, Tony D might have been invited to the set of Celebrity poker, and met Omorosa, and they might have had kids, and god could you imagine how much that would suck? Seriously, there is no problem, just an attempt to be as close to accurate as possible. 
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#22
08-19-2005, 07:31 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That show is just painful to watch. Can't they get people who at least know a little about poker?? [/ QUOTE ] Which is EXACTLY why I will not watch this show. There was a recent post about which pros are the least entertaining to watch on TV. People were nominating Jesus Ferguson, Phil Ivey, Barry Greenstein, etc. because of their stoic nature at the tables. I however, find these players fascinating to watch because of the type of poker they play, not the way they react at the table. I'm sure these idiot "celebrities" are quite lively at the table, but they are still unwatchable because the poker they play is so atrocious. [/ QUOTE ] They have gotten a few decent players before (Mimi Rogers, Ben Affleck, and a guy named Nick Gonzalez (I think that's his name) who really was a sharp player for a celebrity)- but they almost never seem to win on this show. Brad Garrett (by default) may be the best of the 5 champions they have had - but he only advance to the championship game by 2 brutal suckouts on Sara Rue. The other champions simply were not very good players from what I remember.
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#23
08-19-2005, 07:47 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Paul Phillips posted convincing evidence that it was a fabrication. [/ QUOTE ] Paul Phillips posted convincing evidence the hand was spliced from different footage. FYI there are at least 3 other instances where this occurs, but they get less coverage. Notable Matthis Andersson with black aces on a monotone spade board versus the guy that had a made flush. Clear splicing, hand still real. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly, which means the hand may have happened, but the footage used to "document" it was fabricated. He recently said on his site "It's unfortunate that the most often cited example of a certainly faked hand is the tony d laydown of trip jacks, because that one might have happened and just been edited together poorly." For more, check http://extempore.livejournal.com/110018.html [/ QUOTE ] yes, but the hand DID happen. tony d admitted he folded it. i dont see what the problem here is... rj [/ QUOTE ] The thing people are missing out on is that maybe Tony D doesn't care that people think he did that, and may even want to foster the opinion that he did, so people try to bluff him more. All poker is not played with cards..
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#24
08-19-2005, 08:27 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Tony D's fold of trip jacks to Hellmuth's Ace high bluff in the 2003 WSOP was pretty pathetic. He didn't even think long. He folded like it was routine or somethin'. [/ QUOTE ] this hand was a fabrication [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Paul Phillips posted convincing evidence that it was a fabrication. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, and Greg Raymer talked to Tony D and asked him if the hand was correct. He said it was. [/ QUOTE ] The worst of a poker player about a hand he played is not worth very much though.
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#25
08-19-2005, 09:56 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
[ QUOTE ]
That show is just painful to watch. Can't they get people who at least know a little about poker?? [/ QUOTE ] Hey, Phil gives them a little instructional guide! They should be great, right? It was painful for me until I listened to my mom. She said she liked Phil's commentary. And I watch it now largely for that and some laughs. Phil's decisiveness and excellent tactical decision-making are very helpful to me. I think anyone that expects celebs (with big egos and little poker experience) to play well with the minimum of preparation is kidding themselves. If you want to see some better play, watch the end of the season final match. From what I saw, every single player there improved their game significantly from their initial appearances to be decent players. Amongst the good celebs, I think you have to add James Woods too. Shannon Elizabeth and Neil Patrick Harris (a few really bad plays notwithstanding) played fine as well.
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#27
08-20-2005, 10:14 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
The hand with Tony D and Phil Hellmuth was absolutely fabricated. I have the 2003 WSOP DVD and watched the hand several times pausing and slowing it down at certain spots. First of all there is a shot of Tony D about to look at his hand where he has no chips in his hands. Then it switches to the hole cam and it shows his cards where he is holding a stack of chips. Then it switches back to Tony D looking up from checking his hand with no chips in his hand. The dead give away is that when Tony D is looking at his hand with the hole cam shot you can see the dealer dealing cards in the background if you look closely!!! Its odd the dealer would be dealing cards in the middle of such an important hand. Obviously the hole cam shot was of another time when Tony D was holding J-10. I don't know if the hand actually took place, but the footage shown on ESPN is certainly not authentic. You can check the footage out to see for yourself.
Greg E.
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#29
08-21-2005, 12:45 AM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
Nice first post.
No, actually, I do think that they probably spliced in another JT hand of Tony D's.
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#30
08-21-2005, 11:05 PM
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Re: A fold worse than Tommy Reed\'s.
Supposedly Phil gives the contestants a copy of his book, but clearly no one reads it.
The game was 5 handed, yet there were only a handful of preflop raises. AK, AQ were limped regularly without a second thought. Dave had some good lines. My favorites: - Jonny Fairplay is Andy Dick, except not gay nor funny. - Phil: Jonny's 90% to win. - Dave: And 100% to irritate.
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