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#1
10-22-2004, 02:58 PM
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haunting 10-20 hand...
just in time for halloween here's a hand that's been haunting me, its not the biggest pot but i just feel some fuzzy thinking cost me and i want to see what the consensus is.
ok 10-20 nl generally a very passive game havent seen a pre flop re-raise in 3 hours. utg makes it $60 he has about 400, he is tightish pre-flop but a loose caller post flop. next dude makes it $180 he has about 600 he is a long time L.A. prop who i would condsider tight/aggressive/unimaginative. folded to me on the button i have red kings and both of them covered. i decide a re-raise lets them off the hook to easy and just call. now utg moves all in for $220 more, now prop boy moves all in as well. its $420 back to me, what's your play? 
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#2
10-22-2004, 03:06 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
Why in the world didn't you re-pop it preflop? What happens when your ace magnets attract an ace on the flop? I really prefer reraising and getting it all in before the flop as the raiser.
Then again, I don't play high stakes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], so maybe my advice is horrible - if so hopefully the better players can straighten me out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].
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#3
10-22-2004, 03:07 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
Nice to see you posting again limon, hope you have many more haunting hands. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
No way I'm folding Kings preflop against guys who only have 30 bb in front of them. If you lose at least they know you aren't going to be pushed out of the pot, also I'd be surprised if you aren't a favorite in at least the side pot. All you really know is that they both have hands they like and don't want to fold, with stacks that short I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see TT-AA or AK/AQs. Obviously you have a read on these guys and can put them on a better range...
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#4
10-22-2004, 03:07 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
based on your description of the game (no raise in 3 hours), and more importantly those two players, what drugs are you on that after an UTG raise was reraised you didnt muck your hand immediately on not seeing AA? short stacks are irrelevant if youre drawing to two outs.
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#5
10-22-2004, 03:27 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
I call.
Prop boy doesn't want you in the hand, I don't think he's got AA. If UTG has some looseness in him as you say you've got a fair shot at having him crushed. If someone offered me side action at 3.5-1 on neither having AA I'd take it.
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#6
10-22-2004, 03:29 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
I think I have the pot right, $1220 and to you to call $420, about 3:1. They're both very shortstacked, UTG could have a lot of hands I think to go all in with, AK AQ some pocket pairs where he's trying to just get it all in preflop and not think about it. Then the raiser is going to call with any hands he'd of raised with which I think include AK AA KK and maybe QQ. I think with those odds you have to be very sure someone has aces, and you really can't be with the stack sizes they have.
On the other hand since it's three way if you're ahead you're probably not dominating, someone will have an ace. So let's see some scenarios... If you're ahead it's almost for sure someone has an ace, so say, AK vs. KK vs. JJ .16 * $1200 - .85 * $420 = -$165 If you're behind try AA vs. KK vs. TT .55 * $1200 - .45 * $420 = $471 So I guess the great pot odds compensate for that Ace out they have. So to fold, you need to be sure that you are behind x(-$165) + (x-1)($471) > 0, or you have to know someone has aces more than 66% of the time. I don't know if you guys find these equity numbers interesting, I'm doing it mainly for myself because I find it interesting.
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#7
10-22-2004, 03:30 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
Oh and also, "just in time for halloween here's a hand that's been haunting me" - awesome pun.
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#8
10-22-2004, 03:33 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
they have 20 and 30 bb's respectively? can't see how/why you'd fold at the end.
the choice to cold-call is more interesting to me. if that's your plan, aren't you doing it so someone will overplay their AK/QQ and get all-in before the flop?
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#9
10-22-2004, 03:35 PM
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Re: haunting 10-20 hand...
Is this a full ring game?
Seems like 3 to 1 to call... I think you are ahead here often enough - if not in the sidepot all together...I think your flop call may have done the trick - you wanted them to think you didn't have it - they don't. To the person who said to fold here - that is just crazy.
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