AA hand, UGLY flop, perplexing river

pfkaok · #1 09-30-2004, 09:55 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed)

BB ($49)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($36.25)
UTG+2 ($19.70)
MP1 ($167.95)
MP2 ($69.25)
MP3 ($49)
Hero ($52.65)
Button ($56.05)
SB ($109.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) raises to $5, UTG+1 calls $5, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $13, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $8, UTG+1 calls $8.

Flop: ($40.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($40.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets $20, UTG+1 calls $20, Hero folds.

River: ($80.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $1, UTG+1 raises to $3.25 (All-In), UTG folds.

Final Pot: $84.75

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $84.75. 

Is my reraise too small PF here. I usually like to do around 3x the original, but maybe shoulda done more with the other caller? I kind of figued that with about a third of our stacks in it'd be easy to get allin or close on flop...Sometimes I just push here, but I don't want to lose a midpair, and if I'm lucky he might have pair and put me on AK and push in PF. With the 3rd caller the flop was about as Ugly as i thought it could be, unless I'm against 2 small pairs I'm in trouble. Should I bet this flop with 2 others? I was planning on calling if the 2nd guy didn't, would that have been a mistake?? Obviously it turns out the 1st guy was completely bluffing, or just retarded, or maybe they were a team... Never seen a $1 bet into an $80 pot, only to fold to a $2 raise.

Gildersneeze · #2 09-30-2004, 10:47 PM

It's really not the pre-flop re-raise I'm going to question here, but the flop play. Were you worried about a check-raise? If I'm last to act with the Aces down and it checks to me, I'm going to bet it out, most likely a pot-or-slightly-larger-sized bet. KQK is not a board I want to try to check down to try to extract more money when I'm holding AA, I want to know exactly where I stand. If someone does have a low pair down or JT/AJ/AT, I don't want them seeing the turn for cheap/free. If they have a King, well, I still don't feel bad about my bet. There's just sometimes that you're going to take a beat. Bet it out significantly, and if you get called, THEN start worrying about the trip Kings.

It indeed smells like your PF raise got called by smaller pairs, and one of them caught the trips on the turn. Don't give them that chance for cheap.

LokiV · #3 09-30-2004, 10:53 PM

Why the hell do you fold to a $2.25 raise with an $84 pot?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Wow.

Just wow. I don't care if you have 10 high....... wow. UTG's move on the turn was a bluff obviously (he folded to $2) and UTG+1 just called instead of raising his remaining $3.25, he has a queen.

You had the best hand it turned out, I am 99% positive.

Chris Daddy Cool · #4 09-30-2004, 11:29 PM

You should have bet this flop.

NotAClue · #5 10-01-2004, 12:22 AM

I disagree with the other posters; I like your play.

flop: I see no reason to bet here. If you bet, you're pot commited, and if you're called on your bet there's a pretty decent chance you're beat (unless you have a read on the player). Smaller pairs only have 2 outs. JT only has 4 outs (9's) because an A gives you the nut boat. It's unlikely anyone has a gutshot as you hold 2 of the 4 A's. You want a worse hand to try to bluff you (as UTG did here) on the turn.

turn: When UTG+1 (just) calls UTG's bet on the turn leaving himself ONLY 3 some odd dollars left, he almost certainly has a K or perhaps a turned boat.

pfkaok · #6 10-01-2004, 01:03 AM

Well, afterwards, UTG + 1 said that he had QQ for a flopped boat, which I believed... he'd slowplay it then call instead of raise thinking maybe that'd draw me in for some reason instead of pushing 3 more. Like Notaclue says, I felt that I'd be committing myself by betting decent size on flop, so I figuered that if I was beat I'd be beat. Sure I'm giving a free card, and they could make a str8 or little boat and outdraw me, but they might also make a pair and think its good and bet into me, or maybe I'd get really lucky and hit an A to bust somebody who was slowplaying me... oh well, I still am uncertain about the hand, maybe flop bet woulda been good, but was checking THAT bad of a play?

AncientPC · #7 10-01-2004, 05:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, afterwards, UTG + 1 said that he had QQ for a flopped boat, which I believed... he'd slowplay it then call instead of raise thinking maybe that'd draw me in for some reason instead of pushing 3 more. Like Notaclue says, I felt that I'd be committing myself by betting decent size on flop, so I figuered that if I was beat I'd be beat. Sure I'm giving a free card, and they could make a str8 or little boat and outdraw me, but they might also make a pair and think its good and bet into me, or maybe I'd get really lucky and hit an A to bust somebody who was slowplaying me... oh well, I still am uncertain about the hand, maybe flop bet woulda been good, but was checking THAT bad of a play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Remember, you are never pot commited. If you bet pot and someone raises, just fold.

If they call, just check it down and hope to catch. At the very least betting on the flop and them calling might give you a free turn / river card to catch that last A since you have position on them.

NotAClue · #8 10-01-2004, 08:34 AM

The pot is ~$40 and hero has ~$40 left. If hero chooses to bet the flop (1/2 pot to full pot bet), and is check-raised hero has to put the rest of the money in (barring a spectacular read)--if for no other reason than that he would have odds to outdraw QQ for a better boat.

If hero bets the flop, but checks the turn, he is SURE to face a bet on the river. The key here is that hero has position. So when he checks the flop, his opponents still dont know whether he has a K or not, so in many cases they will check the turn to him.