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#1
08-31-2005, 08:11 AM
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Scenario:
dumb 3-3-1 blind structure (1 is on the button) and 3-6 stakes.
Table is about half loose, half decent. Three limpers to your cutoff and you see 99. Do you raise or do you smooth call (and why)? Same scenario but you have JTs, your action (and why)? 
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#3
09-04-2005, 01:10 PM
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Re: Scenario:
I raise the JTs to see if I can get that 4th card for free or to set up a flop raise to get a free river if the board is condusive to do that.
99 with 5 people in the pot is gonna have to get played for set value, so I limp it. I might even limp TT here, however weak that sounds.
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#5
09-04-2005, 01:24 PM
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Re: Scenario:
none.. what good is 99 if the board is AKQ rainbow?
I dont see the logic of your question... raising JTs buys you the button to control the hand, will result in a bigger pot making drawing odds profitable, and allows you to take a card off somewhere if the board connects to your hand, which alot do to JTs
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#6
09-04-2005, 01:33 PM
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Re: Scenario:
[ QUOTE ]
none.. what good is 99 if the board is AKQ rainbow? I dont see the logic of your question... raising JTs buys you the button to control the hand, will result in a bigger pot making drawing odds profitable, and allows you to take a card off somewhere if the board connects to your hand, which alot do to JTs [/ QUOTE ] Raising suited connectors here so you have odds to draw means you have a significant misunderstanding of implied odds. I'm raising 99 and TT almost always here, raising JTs I do occasionally in larger fields.
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#7
09-04-2005, 01:38 PM
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Re: Scenario:
You're thinking is slightly off. For instance, 22 becomes a viable raising hand from the big blind with so many limpers in the pot, and that is exclusively for set value. 99 makes bigger sets and wins very often unimproved. JTs plays similarly. You want a big pot when you make these big hands, as your opponents will often peel the flop/turn drawing ~dead.
99 wins unimproved more often than 22, so it is tempting to limp and try to protect on the flop, but this is less important than the immediate value of raising against bad limpers. These games are not tough enough to give up this edge.
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#8
09-04-2005, 02:16 PM
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Re: Scenario:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] none.. what good is 99 if the board is AKQ rainbow? I dont see the logic of your question... raising JTs buys you the button to control the hand, will result in a bigger pot making drawing odds profitable, and allows you to take a card off somewhere if the board connects to your hand, which alot do to JTs [/ QUOTE ] Raising suited connectors here so you have odds to draw means you have a significant misunderstanding of implied odds. I'm raising 99 and TT almost always here, raising JTs I do occasionally in larger fields. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, so ive thought about this for a few minutes. We are raising 99 and TT on the button because as long as no one has a higher pair, we have more pot equity than any other opponent... we are favored over AKs, QJs, 88, etc. The fact that we are near last to act, which means that we can evaluate from betting in front of us what to do if a bad flop comes out, and the fact that a hand like QT, which, if he saw our 99 would call, will actually "incorrectly" fold in the blinds to our raise makes raising here both correct and more profitable than raising in earlier position with same holdings. I just always assumed that we have no more equity than say QJs and that raising it just increases variance while having little effect on maximizing pot equity. The reasons for not raising JTs are as follows: Any hand Q high or better and any pair has more equity in this pot preflop than we do. Raising will drive out button, and possibly a blind, which we want to stay in the hand to incorrectly call bets when we hit our straight or flush. I had always assumed that buying the button and being able to manipulate the betting rounds outweighed the slight -EV of raising with JTs, but apparently it does not. Are all these reasons logical?? I never really thought of it like this, I just always went by the charts, and figured "Oh, we want a big pot for our suited connectors" and "99 will always lose to an overcard anyways, why raise it and just make it harder to play postflop? If this is all true though, shouldnt we raise all the way down to 77, because anyone with higher would have probably raised preflop? and over all other hands that are not pairs > ours we are comparative favorites? PS sorry for the thread hijack
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#9
09-04-2005, 03:39 PM
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Re: Scenario:
[ QUOTE ]
dumb 3-3-1 blind structure (1 is on the button) and 3-6 stakes. Table is about half loose, half decent. Three limpers to your cutoff and you see 99. Do you raise or do you smooth call (and why)? Same scenario but you have JTs, your action (and why)? [/ QUOTE ] 99 raise JTs raise
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#10
09-04-2005, 03:43 PM
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Re: Scenario:
You raise 99 and TT more often because it'll hold up UI, therefore implied aren't as much of a factor. Both JTs and lower pockets require a bit of implied odds to make their preflop calls profitable. Raising pockets and suited connectors is viable, but I like it better in larger fields, even if this is a bizarro blinds setup. Its most important feature is that raising preflop allows the other players to draw to second best hand, for deception especially with the pockets, and to mix up your play, as well as the check to the better action on an unfavorable flop with your pockets. None of those really are the case with 99 and TT, you're raising because you've got an equity edge against the crap that most people limp with.
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