PP $22 - First hand ITM. Call the push with 22?

[playtitleist]

Considerations:
- Dunno how villain plays ITM (ie, is he doing this with a wide range?). Obviously I am no better than coin-flip.
- If coin flip, 50% to win $40, 50% to win $60 for a chance to win $100. I like those odds.
- At the time I remembered a post last week suggesting never fold a PP when ITM.
- If BB calls I need to beat both of them to stay alive. 22 is not good against two players.
- BB will need a good hand to call, facing two all-ins which if he loses would but him at a 6000:2000 deficit.

Villain: (2080)
playtitleist (1970)
BB: (3950)
playtitleist posts small blind (200)
BB: posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to playtitleist [ 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]
Villain: raises (2080) to 2080
Villain: is all-In.
playtitleist ????

[splashpot]

Are you asking a pure ICM question? Or are you having trouble putting him on a range? If his range is 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2s+,Q6o+,J7s+,J9o+,T8s+,98s or looser, you should call according to ICM. Tighter than that and you should fold.

[playtitleist]

Okay, so I should pretty much fold. That's what I got from SNGPT too. I guess I am asking (not well) about my considerations. Are they valid? And what am I missing? I thought the biggest factor in NOT calling is that the BB has us both doubled and is yet to act, but changing the stacks and giving me the big stack is still very obvious fold. So, I am missing something.

It could be simply that the range to call a push is much higher than the range to make a push. If so, then I am not missing it, just ignoring it at the moment...and need to stop the silliness.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
- If coin flip, 50% to win $40, 50% to win $60 for a chance to win $100. I like those odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is fundamentally wrong. You have already won $40. You have a 50% chance of winning $0 and a 50% chance of winning $20 or $60 (according to your estimates of your 2s holding up). Don't get confused about that. It's important.

[playtitleist]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
- If coin flip, 50% to win $40, 50% to win $60 for a chance to win $100. I like those odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is fundamentally wrong. You have already won $40. You have a 50% chance of winning $0 and a 50% chance of winning $20 or $60 (according to your estimates of your 2s holding up). Don't get confused about that. It's important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, you are right of course. But, I have the choice to NOT flip at all. That is where I am confused.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
But, I have the choice to NOT flip at all. That is where I am confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

What confuses you about it? If you fold, your equity in the prize pool will be based on your current stack and the sizes of your opponents stacks after the hand. If you call you are either done or roughly even with the current BB (a little ahead, actually). If you call you win roughly 50% of the time. Pull all the pieces together, with ICM, and you'll get your answer.

never ever call a push with 22. or any pair up to 99.

[vinyard]

[ QUOTE ]
never ever call a push with 22. or any pair up to 99.

[/ QUOTE ] This is simply wrong. This is a pretty clear call with any pair better than 66 unless UTG has no idea what he is doing. And no matter what range you put him on 99 is a call here I suspect.

[Shillx]

It is super close dude. He should be pushing roughly the top 30%, and 22 is almost a toss-up against that range (slightly wrong). IMO you still have enough chips to fold here and pick a better spot. Can't really fault either action though.

Edit - I would call with 33.